Ep 106 – Exfoliation: How Much is Too Much?

ASCP member performs microdermabrasion

Although exfoliation seems straightforward, clients often have mixed messages about what to use, when to use it, and the expectations from exfoliating. That’s no surprise when you consider exfoliation comes in many forms like scrubs, enzymes, and peels, and can be found in the most basic of products, such as cleansers or serums. In this episode of ASCP Esty Talk, Maggie and Ella define exfoliation and discuss how much is too much, both in the treatment room and in home care.   

ASCP Esty Talk with Maggie Staszcuk and Ella Cressman

Produced by Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) for licensed estheticians, ASCP Esty Talk is a weekly podcast hosted by Maggie Staszcuk and Ella Cressman. We see your passion, innovation, and hard work and are here to support you by providing a platform for networking, advocacy, camaraderie, and education. We aim to inspire you to ask the right questions, find your motivation, and give you the courage to have the professional skin care career you desire.


About Ella Cressman:

Ella Cressman is a licensed esthetician, certified organic formulator, business owner, and absolute ingredient junkie! As an educator, she enjoys empowering other estheticians and industry professionals to understand skin care from an ingredient standpoint rather than a product-specific view.

She has spent many hours researching ingredients, understanding how and where they are sourced, as well as phytochemistry, histological access, and complementary compounds for intentional skin benefits. In addition to running a skin care practice, Cressman founded a comprehensive consulting group, the HHP Collective, and has consulted for several skin care lines, including several successful CBD brands.

Connect with Ella Cressman:

Website: www.ellacress.com

Website: www.hhpcollective.com


About Maggie Staszcuk:

Maggie has been a licensed esthetician since 2006 and holds a bachelor’s degree in business administration from Stephens College. She has worked in the spa and med-spa industry, and served as an esthetics instructor and a director of education for one of the largest schools in Colorado before coming to ASCP as the Advanced Modality Specialist. 

Connect with Maggie Staszcuk:

P 800.789.0411 EXT 1636

MStaszcuk@ascpskincare.com or AMI@ascpskincare.com


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About DMK:

Founded by botanical visionary Danné Montague-King, DMK is the World Leader in Paramedical Skin Revision™. Our revolutionary concept of REMOVE. REBUILD. PROTECT. MAINTAIN.® aims to match an individual’s biochemistry with the appropriate skin therapy. DMK believes that the origin of most skin conditions is a result of disharmony within the skin. Using the principles of biochemistry, DMK has formulated a range of Enzymatic Treatments and Home Prescriptives that encourage the skin to return to its most balanced and healthy state. For skin care professionals whose business depends on generating long-lasting clinically-proven results, DMK’s education-first approach has become essential. Hundreds of salons, spas, and even industry experts have recognized the effectiveness of the DMK concept, witnessed by thousands of people worldwide whose lives have been changed forever.

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About Universal Companies:

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Recognized as the "Favorite Distributor" in the American Spa Professional's Choice Awards for the past 17 years, we see this as a continuous challenge to provide the best products, tools, and education that pros trust the most.

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About Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP):

Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) is the nation’s largest association for skin care professionals and your ONLY all-inclusive source for professional liability insurance, education, community, and career support. For estheticians at every stage of the journey, ASCP is your essential partner. Get in touch with us today if you have any questions or would like to join and become an ASCP member.

Connect with ASCP:

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Email: getconnected@ascpskincare.com

Phone: 800-789-0411

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0:00:00.5 Speaker 1: DMK is the world leader in paramedical skin revision education with certification programs designed to give licensed professionals a thorough understanding of the skin and an in-depth study of the DMK concept of remove, rebuild, protect, maintain. Created by the botanical visionary Danné Montague-King, DMK offers skin revision training and education for all ages, skin conditions and ethnicities in more than 35 countries, harnessing the body's innate healing mechanisms to change the health of the skin. Learn more at dannemking.com, that's D-A-N-N-E-M-K-I-N-G.com. 




0:00:49.6 Speaker 2: You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk, where we share insider tips, industry resources and education for estheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk, 'cause ASCP knows, it's all about you. 


0:01:04.0 Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I am Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician, certified organic skin care formulator and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals. 


0:01:15.0 Speaker 4: I am Maggie Staszcuk, licensed esthetician, and ASCP's cosmetology education manager. 


0:01:20.8 Speaker 3: And joining us once again is Tracy Donley, Executive Director of ASCP. Hi, Tracy. 


0:01:26.5 Speaker 5: Hi, Ella and Maggie. 


0:01:28.7 Speaker 4: Hey Tracy. 


0:01:29.3 Speaker 5: I'm super excited. I am a exfoliation junkie, and I hope I'm not gonna get in trouble on this show and you're gonna tell me I'm doing everything wrong. But before we do that, can I just jump in and make sure that everybody that is listening to this podcast who is a member has downloaded the ASCP SkinPro app?  


0:01:45.0 S4: Yes. 


0:01:46.6 S5: Oh my gosh. If you guys have not downloaded the ASCP SkinPro app, you are missing out. And guess what? It's only for members. So if you are curious as to what I am talking about and why it is so cool, you better join, not of course, just because of the fact that we have the best liability, professional liability, insurance coverage out there specifically for estheticians, but because we're the only association out there that represents you, the solo esthetician. We got your back. Maggie tell us a little bit more why they should download the ASCP SkinPro app. Why?  


0:02:26.8 S4: SkinPro app is for the esthetician who just needs to check themselves. It has... 


0:02:31.2 S5: Check yourself. 


0:02:32.3 S4: Yeah, check yourself. It has a ton of conditions, a huge list of ingredients. So let's say you are analyzing and consulting with your client, or maybe you're doing a little bit of retail and you need to confirm a condition that they have, or you wanna check if there is any allergic reaction to the product that you're sending them for home use. We're gonna be talking about exfoliation in today's podcast, a lot of these exfoliating acids, AHAs and BHAs can have reaction for conditions on your client's skin. So use that app and you can look up things to know before proceeding with treatment, indications, contraindications and just what you should know in general. 


0:03:10.6 S5: Ooh. 


0:03:10.7 S3: Check yourself before you wreck yourself. 


0:03:13.1 S4: Totally. 


0:03:16.5 S5: Ella says it best, I swear. Every time she just like sums it right up, "Check yourself before you wreck yourself." 


0:03:20.3 S3: And I'm looking on there, actually literally looking on there right now under the conditions, at some of the conditions for... There's overview, considerations, contraindications, related conditions, related ingredients. 


0:03:33.8 S5: See, all of that in the palm of your hand. It's crazy, right? I think it's crazy. My brain's like, "Poof." 


0:03:42.0 S4: Brilliant. Yeah. 


0:03:43.2 S3: I think this would have been really helpful for some people, even though it's a professional only app. Some kind of a resource like this would have been helpful for all the people who were stuck at home during the pandemic... 


0:03:53.6 S5: Sure. 


0:03:54.1 S3: Checking themself out on Zoom and thinking, "Oh no." 




0:03:58.4 S5: But what about even students, like recent grads. Can you imagine how great this would be if you're a recent grad?  


0:04:06.7 S3: Totally, yeah. The recent grad, fresh out of school, doesn't have that instructor who can back them up, they've got the app instead. They can quickly, at their fingertips, look on their phone what they need to know before proceeding with treatment. 


0:04:19.6 S5: It is so easy-breezy. And it actually is so smart, if you log into the website from... Log into ascpskincare.com from your phone, it will know what kind of phone you are logging in on, and download it the right way, perfectly for you. So it's so cool. Alright, enough about this because I'm super excited to hear about exfoliation, friend or foe, did I say that right?  


0:04:44.9 S4: Mm-hmm. 


0:04:44.9 S3: So, we were talking about, maybe this would have been something really great, the SkinPro app for non-professionals during the pandemic who were just checking themselves out on Zoom calls, because what happened was, I'm sure there was a lot of search engine searching. 




0:05:01.9 S3: "I look old, what's going on?" They're in Zoom meetings, horrible lighting and I need to get rid of these forehead/eyes/wrinkles/age spots/dull complexion. So what happened was, there was a lot of online purchase of exfoliating acids based on bloggers' advice, bloggers who are non-qualified, I might add, and this is a lot of assumptions in my head but... 


0:05:31.7 S5: They're probably not estheticians. Let's just say that. 


0:05:33.9 S3: "Search engine, search engine, what should I do? I feel like I look old." "Oh, get a mandelic acid. Oh, try TCA. Oh, I should do that. Amazon, two-day delivery, check, get it at home, put it on, oh my gosh, inflammation. 




0:05:45.3 S4: Yeah, and how many people out there or clients, Ella, that you've run into who act like, "No pain, no gain?" And so they're putting on more and more, they're bearing through that burn... 


0:05:57.3 S5: That is so me. Oh my God. 


0:05:58.4 S4: And they're doing damage to their skin. 


0:06:01.7 S3: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And even ones who come to me and they're like, "I just wanna sheet peel." "Why do you wanna sheet peel?" But in this case, they were inflamed and guess whose fault it was? This is not good, this is not good. Guess whose fault it was?  


0:06:16.9 S4: The customers', the actual... 


0:06:19.3 S3: Now... You would think, right?  


0:06:21.5 S4: Well yeah. 


0:06:21.5 S3: No. It was the exfoliating acids' fault that their skin is now inflamed. 


0:06:26.4 S4: Okay. 


0:06:27.3 S3: And so for that, what we see in 2022 is one of the trends... And it's important as a professional and a consumer to understand this. One of the trends for 2022 is moving away from exfoliating acids because they're bad, okay. Because so many people sat and talked about how bad they were 'cause they did a self home care... 


0:06:45.7 S4: This jacked me up yeah, this... 


0:06:48.1 S5: "I will never use that acid." 


0:06:48.2 S3: This acid made me look red, this acid made me flake, this acid made me look older, this acid made me dehydrated, all of the above. 


0:06:55.4 S5: Oh, poor acids. 


0:06:56.8 S4: Yeah. But you know what, I agree with this trend, and I'm grateful for it. 


0:07:02.2 S5: Whoa, whoa, whoa, back the bus up here we go, with Maggie coming in with an opposing view. 


0:07:06.6 S4: Yes, I think there is way too much exfoliation happening in the industry. 


0:07:10.9 S5: I love exfoliating. 


0:07:13.4 S4: No. Time and a place, when you have something you need to correct, that's when you use it. But for those estheticians, they're out there, and those clients who demand it, a monthly peel, what is the point?  


0:07:26.9 S5: Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like aggressive peel. You're saying a monthly aggressive peel. 


0:07:32.0 S4: I think that the term exfoliation is very broad. 


0:07:37.1 S5: It is broad. Thank you for that. 


0:07:37.2 S4: And I think that this begs the question are exfoliating acids or exfoliation... Exfoliating acids, friends or foe? And exfoliation, how much is too much? And so before we can answer that, why don't we define the differences? Let's talk about the differences. 


0:07:52.8 S5: Okay, that'll make me feel better. Yes. 


0:07:55.2 S3: So let's start with, enzymes. Enzymes are not an exfoliating carboxylic acid, they're like Pac-Man, we've heard. I think they digest the top layer of skin. You'll hear pineapple, papaya are the main enzymes. So pineapple and papaya, what are your thoughts, Maggie? Pineapple, and papaya?  


0:08:12.5 S4: I think they're great. I also think you often have products that are combining enzymes and acids. 


0:08:18.7 S5: Yes. 


0:08:21.0 S3: Yes. So when we get into chemicals, the carboxylic acid, where we have alpha, beta hydroxy acids, and trichloroacetic acids or ____ or even a combination of phenol. So what's happening with those is that they're actually breaking the protein bonds. And that's what's causing a sloughing. So it's working from top through the skin layers, where enzymes are working on outer layers and this is shimming its way through the skin layers, breaking bonds, depending on the molecular size, and then causing a release. 


0:08:49.9 S4: I think you can also look at it like those chemicals or those acids are forcing cell death, whereas enzymes are targeting what's already dead. 


0:09:01.9 S5: See, and that's what I like, because manual exfoliation and enzymes, they're already dead. So you can't... 


0:09:08.7 S3: Not always. 


0:09:08.8 S5: Ooh! Are they on their last leg and just being like, "Kill me now?" 


0:09:13.2 S3: When we're looking at mechanical or physical exfoliation, you have in that category, a towel, for example, that could be manual or a scrub, that could be manual, or dermaplane or Microderm. So you could be scraping or plaining... 


0:09:31.2 S5: No. 


0:09:31.3 S3: Or ablating... ____ Abrasing, ablating, dermabrasion, yeah, abrasing new or live cells potentially. And I say that because I have had it happen to me. [laughter] 


0:09:41.9 S5: Well, I have too... 


0:09:43.2 S3: Yeah? Right. Me I think about that. 


0:09:43.3 S5: I've had it too. But oh, I don't know. It's gonna be so hard to change my mind. [laughter] 


0:09:50.2 S3: Well, we're not changing minds. We're just understanding, right? Let's just understand. 


0:09:54.5 S5: Okay. Okay. 


0:09:54.7 S3: So when we look at all of these differences, we have enzymes that are going after dead cells, we have chemicals that could be going after live or dead cells, depending on the molecular structure right? Now, do you think that there would be a time to go after live cells?  


0:10:07.7 S4: Yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. Like I said, time and a place. You have something that you wanna correct. Then you're using your acids, you're doing the chemical peel appropriate for that condition, appropriate for that client's skin type. But like I was saying, you know, that client who feels it's necessary every month to come in consistently for a chemical peel, I think that's overdoing it, that's consistently creating a wound that isn't necessary. 


0:10:31.6 S5: What would be an example Maggie of what you... Something that would make sense that you wanted to correct? What's the specific example?  


0:10:37.1 S4: Let's say that client is coming in with pigmentation or sun damage that needs to be corrected. You put them on a series of peels, correct the... 


0:10:50.2 S5: Area. 


0:10:50.8 S4: The area, sure. And then the peel series is over. There's no sense in them continuing to come in for peels once that correction has occurred. 


0:11:00.0 S3: And I would say that I have an opposite opinion of that. 


0:11:03.7 S5: Ooh I love it. 


0:11:05.9 S3: I would say it depends on the depth of correction, 'cause peels again is a broad term, right? So we have everything from mandelic acid, which is super fat molecules. It's not gonna penetrate as deep but it still encourages the live cells to not misfunction, going through their natural process versus a glycolic acid that is smaller and is gonna penetrate. Yes, I don't think that there's a place for that every month, but I say chemical peels to my clients and I'm set up on a monthly, like four to six weeks my clients come in. And so that can be anything from... Their service could be anything from a dermaplane to an enzyme, to maybe they need a little nudge that month of something different. 


0:11:42.7 S4: Well, I think then we should clarify 'cause, we're talking about monthly coming in for an exfoliating treatment. But... 


0:11:48.2 S5: Not necessarily a peel. 


0:11:51.4 S4: An enzyme is not a peel... 


0:11:51.8 S5: Right. 


0:11:53.5 S4: In my mind or dermaplane is not a peel in my mind. So I think definitely our clients should be increasing their cell turnover for, one if they are aging, and we want to maintain healthy skin and hydrated skin. But to actually chemical peel the skin every month, I don't think in my opinion... 


0:12:12.7 S5: 'Cause you could put a mandelic acid in a cleanser in a deep... And do a deep cleansing. Right. And that's not... And that's exfoliating, but it's not a peel. Right?  


0:12:21.8 S4: Correct. That is not a peel right. 


0:12:24.9 S3: But to do like a trichloroacetic acid or TCA peel every month, completely unnecessary. 


0:12:30.5 S5: Okay. Okay. 


0:12:30.6 S3: Completely unnecessary. 


0:12:31.6 S5: 'Cause I think you guys are closer than you thought. Yeah. 


0:12:32.9 S3: Oh, absolutely. I think there's just a broad definition of peels, too, because some companies include those types of fat, like those superficial, or more superficial in their peels, or some people were taught that those are peels. And so it's a matter of changing maybe how you look at it. And looking back to even the thought process of a series of six, right? What is your thoughts on a series of six if we're looking at a chemical peel or a microdermabrasion for example?  


0:13:00.1 S4: I think that every client is different. It depends on what their need is, what you're correcting. So you can't say to every client, "We're going to do six." It depends on, how did they react to that initial treatment? How deep is say this pigmentation that we're correcting given my prior example. So maybe some people, six is what they need. But you could have another client where it only takes three, or you've got a client where you're gonna do four peels, reassess. Maybe you need to switch up the acid, or maybe they're... Summer is coming, not a great time to do a series of peels. So you did the four. You're gonna change their regimen to continue to correct them at home, and then they're gonna come back for a different series. 


0:13:44.2 S3: I think, too, it's always... Not only every client is different, but as their skin changes, because I think one thing too, so important, so important, and this goes back to a couple of podcasts that we've done recently on retail sales. So important is the retail homecare, right?  


0:14:01.1 S5: Oh yeah. I mean, if you are selling, you could maybe sell just three. A series of three then. Right? And then make sure that it's a good homecare. 


0:14:10.0 S3: And I wouldn't even... I don't sell series even. 


0:14:12.0 S5: I would not. 


0:14:12.4 S3: Which is good for business. 


0:14:14.7 S5: Yeah. Sure. 


0:14:15.0 S3: Right to sell a series, but I sell... I sell... 


0:14:19.4 S5: A program. 


0:14:20.2 S3: A program, I sell me. 


0:14:21.8 S5: Yeah. 


0:14:22.9 S3: [laughter] And I sell a team. I sell a team basically. "We're in this together, I want you to come in this time, or we're going to reassess." And so I won't put anyone on... Let's just say glycolic acid, for example, I'm never gonna put anybody on a series of glycolic acid because, Treatment One, they might want something different. They might need... Not want... Need. They might need something different then at Treatment Two, their skin has changed quite a bit because now they're on homecare and now their skin is more hydrated. To Maggie's point, maybe the melanin distribution is a little different 'cause they're on a brightening agent at home and so it's not as deep, or the dendritic fingers are not as long. So you don't have to do as much or maybe they're on some kind of weekly nudging exfoliation, and so they don't need it as then, maybe they need a mandelic now. And so then we assess, but then I'm getting them back in and maybe they've had enough chemical, and now they need a mechanical? So what is that gonna be? Is it gonna be Dermabrasion? Is it going to be a dermaplane? A scrub? What do they need that day?  


0:15:23.0 S3: Hey, guys, stop. Let's take a quick break. 


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0:16:04.9 S3: Let's get back to the conversation. 


0:16:07.9 S4: We touched on home care for a second, but I don't think closed the loop. There's one thing that I think the client sometimes misses, and that is that your cleanser can be exfoliating, your serums can be exfoliating. And so making sure that the client is understanding. If you are educating them, you're only going to exfoliate on these days. That very well could mean only the exfoliating cleansers, the exfoliating serums, and these exfoliating masks are used together on these days. And if they are not understanding that concept, and they're using that cleanser every day of the week, they're using that serum every day of the week. That really equates to you're exfoliating every day of the week. So when then they come back to you and they're saying, "Wow, I'm dry, I'm flaky." And you're saying, "What's going on? How often are you exfoliating?" They say, "Well, that mask is only three times a week like you said. 


0:17:06.2 S5: That one mask?  


0:17:07.3 S4: Right that one mask. 


0:17:08.4 S5: But what about that serum and that... Right. I don't know, man. I don't wanna get a bunch of hate, but I guess I exfoliate every day. 


0:17:15.4 S4: Well, for some people, that works. 


0:17:16.9 S5: Yeah. 


0:17:17.2 S4: I mean, that glycolic cleanser every day could be fine for you. 


0:17:21.4 S5: Yeah. 


0:17:22.2 S3: 'Cause there are some factors that go into that. What is the PH of the product? What else are you using? How often are you getting a clinical treatment, or how often are you getting services, Tracy?  




0:17:33.9 S5: Stop looking at me like that. 




0:17:35.3 S4: 'Cause I haven't seen you in my books. 


0:17:37.8 S5: I know. And actually, I do need to get on your books. I really haven't... Yeah. I mean... Sometimes I think I'm a know it all, and I've been really busy, and it's not a good excuse. 


0:17:48.0 S4: You're a human. You're having a human experience and that's just... 


0:17:50.8 S5: And I use great products. And so I think but there's something to have another human being, a pro, an esthetician, be able to look at your skin in the light, get all close to it, and that I can't do. I mean... Trust me, I've spent many hours in front of the Mag mirror, but I am not probably looking at my skin the same way. 


0:18:12.0 S4: Mag mirror should die. Burn them. 




0:18:12.6 S5: I know that he should die, but I'm not looking at my skin the same way that a trained esthetician would. A pro. It's like "Okay I need to go." 


0:18:23.6 S3: Yeah. And that's okay, too. And not aesthetician 'cause you probably have a mishmash of all kinds of different products. I was like, "I'm gonna use this today." 


0:18:30.5 S5: That's for sure. 


0:18:32.3 S3: "Oh. I forgot I have that. Let me start using this." 


0:18:34.8 S5: "Oh, this one smells good. I love it." 


0:18:36.9 S4: "Oh, yeah. I don't remember where I got this. Let me put it in my bag." 


0:18:39.8 S5: I know. 


0:18:40.6 S4: And then I have my travel skincare, too. That's always in my travel bag, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that's the only time I ever use that?" [laughter] 


0:18:46.6 S5: And I think we're gonna have to talk about to layer or not to layer 'cause there's a lot of controversy out there about layering serums and all kinds of stuff. [laughter] 


0:18:55.4 S3: But speaking of the professional, how important it is to always follow the advice of a professional, especially when you're looking at something like exfoliating acids, especially for the example that we started out with like right, these Zoom calls or these Amazon exfoliating acid, Prime delivery. [chuckle] That is not always good for you. The other thing to consider as a professional is that, you're in charge. So Maggie, have you had this client before? I know who's like, "I just want a peel... " 


0:19:28.6 S4: Oh yeah. 


0:19:28.9 S3: I just want a peel, I just want a sheet peel. 


0:19:30.1 S4: That's every client coming in for a chemical Peel. That's what they say. 


0:19:34.7 S3: And what is your first question?  




0:19:38.8 S4: I'm gonna say, Ella, it never ends well because I always end up saying no and that's not how this works. [laughter] 


0:19:45.5 S5: Yeah, and people usually don't like that. They don't really like that. 


0:19:48.9 S3: Yeah, so. Yeah. My first question is, "What are you using at home? Oh, we'd love to do that, what are you using at home?" "I'm using... And then, when you know, "um... ", that means probably nothing. 


0:20:01.1 S?: Yeah. 


0:20:01.2 S3: I like CeraVe and I use Lubriderm and Jergens. 


0:20:06.8 S4: I would never do a peel on a first visit. Never, never. 


0:20:11.0 S3: "But, I just made an appointment for a peel, and I'm here for a peel, and my last aesthetician gave me a peel. I just want a peel 'cause I have a wedding in two weeks." 


0:20:18.9 S5: Where is your last aesthetician? I am just curious. That gave you that peel? [chuckle] 


0:20:23.5 S4: Exactly. ____ business. I don't know. But I think that happens a lot, and explaining, this is the time for re-education, and it always seems to be that person who's not on any kind of home care whatsoever, who does have a special event coming up, and there are options. So there are other types of exfoliation that you can offer, so they'll still look super fresh. And, it's an opportunity to explain and educate and turn them into that series, or that monthly visitor of some kind of some something. Whether it's exfoliating or not, and then that's a good thing. But here's another question, I've seen this... You know, I'm a social media sleuth. So, I've seen this way too much, "You guys, my client really wants to peel, and so what kind of peel should I do on her?" 


0:21:05.3 S5: Woah!  


0:21:06.0 S3: Yes! I see that a lot, also. And whereas you can't just do that cookie-cutter, series of three, this is the peel that you choose for everybody. Every client is different. Their skin is gonna be different in every visit, and you've gotta really assess Fitzpatrick. What do they wanna get out of that peel? What are you correcting? And have that one-on-one in the first visit before you even apply anything. 


0:21:33.4 S4: And, your client is not in charge, you are. Why do they wanna peel? Why do you want them to peel. 


0:21:38.1 S5: 'Cause their best friend said that they're awesome and her skin looked so good before this wedding?  


0:21:42.9 S4: But why do you want them to peel? Like if there's not sheet peeling, blowing in the wind evidence, peeling then, it's not successful. But what's happened is that you're not causing that lifestyle death, perhaps? But, you are still simulating, you might be changing the monogenesis, for example, or you're stimulating that cell proliferation, so you're getting fresh skin cells, stimulating the cell turnover rate for having the most fresh-skinned face forward, if you will. But it's not like that. So I would challenge anyone listening who does have that mindset of if it's not sheet peeling, it's not working, that that's not the case, and it could actually be that sheet peeling is causing damage. 


0:22:25.1 S3: Another thing too, is that clients who will come in for that series and maybe they get that sheet peeling in that first treatment, but then second and third treatment, they're getting no peeling at all, and they're upset thinking that the chemical peel is no longer working. That's not what's happening, right?  


0:22:44.6 S4: Right. You've peeled the dead cells out already. So you've returned the... A youthful cadence, if you will. 


0:22:52.1 S5: Yeah. 


0:22:52.2 S4: So you've returned it to a different rate so there's not too much to slough off. There's not as much to clean out. So, another thing to think about always is staying within your scope of practice. Whether you're doing mechanical, enzymatic or chemical peels, consider double exfoliation if it's permissible in your state or if you need medical oversight. And, also don't do DIY. Don't encourage your clients to have a couple of drops of lemon juice here, and that and the other. 


0:23:19.9 S5: Don't even do DIY yourself. I mean... If you are insured with ASCP, and I know you know then, that its product insurance say, "Part of the whole deal." But if you are making your own little concoction, that won't be covered if something goes wrong. So, you heard that here. Right now. 


0:23:39.1 S3: So a couple of horror stories for you, when I was working for a school here in Colorado. You know we always teach about contraindications, analyzing the skin... I'll share two with you. We had one student, speaking of DIY, who had learned what the basis of glycolic acid was. So, she went home and blended a bunch of strawberries, and put them on her face as like a home-mask thinking she was giving herself like a DIY glycolic acid peel, let it sit for 10 minutes, and burned the crap out of her face. 


0:24:17.1 S5: Oh my gosh. 


0:24:18.0 S3: Like she looked like she had third degree burns. 


0:24:21.4 S4: That's horrible. And that's the thing like... Okay, so this is another feedback onto natural skin care, is that as a formulator, you have to understand that those strawberries, who knows how long they've sat in the fridge, and how long they sat in the warehouse, and how long they sat in the field next to GMO ingredients, right? So that is... There's a lot of variables in there, not just... That just absolutely creeps me out. Not to mention the pesticides. 


0:24:43.8 S3: Yeah. 


0:24:44.3 S4: Or the actual like... 


0:24:45.5 S5: Or... Even if it's not like GMOs and pesticides and stuff. I mean, I've heard that Sake, and apple cider vinegar... I mean that can do major, major damage to your skin. 


0:24:55.6 S3: Sake-it to ya. 




0:24:58.2 S?: Sake-it to ya. 


0:25:00.3 S?: Sake'it to ya. 


0:25:01.4 S5: Am I right?  


0:25:01.7 S3: Mm-hmm. 


0:25:02.5 S5: I mean, that those like... Those... 


0:25:04.0 S4: Yeah. It sounds good, and you read on your natural blog and you wanna go clean, and you wanna go green, and you wanna do these things... But it... Get some pH strips, if that's the thing. Get some pH strips and check it out, and that's another thing I've incorporated actually in my analysis or my consultation, is pH strips of their products and be like, "I don't think so." 


0:25:23.5 S3: I love like that. 


0:25:25.3 S5: I do too. 


0:25:26.4 S?: Yeah so it's... 


0:25:29.1 S5: That is like actionable. That's like visual. 


0:25:29.3 S4: Yeah. It might be a hyaluronic or it might be a niacinamide, but it's not going in your skin because it's alkaline. So anyways. But, get some pH strips if you're going to do at home stuff. And understand the skin, and how it's gonna react, and what to look for. 


0:25:44.6 S5: Tell us one more, tell us one more. 


0:25:46.3 S3: Okay. One more, sorry. We didn't talk too much about contraindications for exfoliation, but there was somebody who had a cold sore outbreak and aestheticians know that if you have an active outbreak, you do not chemical peel. And, this was taught, and we told her, and she did not listen, gave herself a chemical peel, and that outbreak spread to her entire chin. Her entire chin, I cannot stress that enough. 


0:26:16.5 S5: Was it all full of cold sores?  


0:26:18.0 S3: All full of cold sores. 


0:26:18.9 S5: Ouch. 


0:26:19.3 S3: So, and I will say now, every time she has an outbreak, it will be her entire chin. 


0:26:25.0 S5: No, is that what happens?  


0:26:26.5 S3: Yeah. 


0:26:27.2 S5: Once there, always there?  


0:26:28.5 S3: Yeah. 


0:26:29.2 S4: Students, come on. 


0:26:31.1 S5: Come on. Listen to what these people say. 


0:26:34.8 S4: Come on. [laughter] Listen to us. Follow the... Not that we know everything, but we know enough. 


0:26:41.8 S3: We know some things. 


0:26:42.8 S4: Yeah. We know enough to get you out of those whoopsie doozies. 


0:26:45.6 S3: Yeah. There's no such thing as, "Just avoiding this one area." 'Cause once that acid is in the skin, it travels. 


0:26:52.3 S4: Mm-hmm. 


0:26:52.4 S5: Ugh. I think that is a big part, is knowing what they do as an occupation, I can't go into the details, 'cause we had a really big case here with one of our members, but knowing what they do for a living, knowing what their plans are that weekend, you need to know those details. 


0:27:12.7 S?: Mm-hmm. 


0:27:13.4 S3: You need to do a thorough, thorough consultation, and then a revisit if you will. So how much is too much? I would say, it depends on the client. And they should follow the advice of the professional. Understand the professional who understands the complete system, if you will. What's going on in clinic and what's going on at home. If you are the professional, making sure that you're outlining their home-care program so that you can understand things like exfoliating cleansers, exfoliating serums, exfoliating masks. And then educate, educate, educate. Wouldn't you say?  


0:27:48.3 S4: Oh, totally agree. 


0:27:49.7 S3: Now listeners, we wanna hear from you. What are your thoughts on exfoliation? How much is too much? How much is just right? Let us know. Reach out on our social media platforms, especially Instagram and Facebook, or by emailing, getconnected@ascpskincare.com. We wanna know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP SC talk, and for more information on this episode, or ways to connect with Maggie or myself or, to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes. And stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk. 




0:28:22.8 S1: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more subscribe. If you wanna belong to the only, all-inclusive Association for aestheticians, that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights, and an opportunity to spotlight your sick skills, join at ascpskincare.com. Only $259 per year, for all this goodness. ASCP knows, it's all about you.Page Break 

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