Cruelty free and kosher, vegan and halal skin care. What do they have in common? How are they different? Why would you want to know about them? In this episode of ASCP Esty Talk, we examine the parallels between classifications we have heard much about (cruelty free and vegan) to those we may not know much about (kosher and halal). Listen in to decide if these are specialties you may want to add to your practice.
ASCP Esty Talk with Maggie Staszcuk and Ella Cressman
Produced by Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) for licensed estheticians, ASCP Esty Talk is a weekly podcast hosted by Maggie Staszcuk and Ella Cressman. We see your passion, innovation, and hard work and are here to support you by providing a platform for networking, advocacy, camaraderie, and education. We aim to inspire you to ask the right questions, find your motivation, and give you the courage to have the professional skin care career you desire.
About Ella Cressman:
Ella Cressman is a licensed esthetician, certified organic formulator, business owner, and absolute ingredient junkie! As an educator, she enjoys empowering other estheticians and industry professionals to understand skin care from an ingredient standpoint rather than a product-specific view.
She has spent many hours researching ingredients, understanding how and where they are sourced, as well as phytochemistry, histological access, and complementary compounds for intentional skin benefits. In addition to running a skin care practice, Cressman founded a comprehensive consulting group, the HHP Collective, and has consulted for several skin care lines, including several successful CBD brands.
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About Maggie Staszcuk:
Maggie has been a licensed esthetician since 2006 and holds a bachelor’s degree in business administration from Stephens College. She has worked in the spa and med-spa industry and served as an esthetics instructor and a director of education for one of the largest schools in Colorado before coming to ASCP as the Advanced Modality Specialist.
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E MStaszcuk@ascpskincare.com or AMI@ascpskincare.com
About Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP):
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0:00:00.7 Speaker 1: You are listening to ASCP Esty talk where we share insider tips, industry resources, and education for estheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk 'cause ASCP knows it's all about you.
0:00:16.3 Ella Cressman: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty talk. I am Ella Cressman, a licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator and content contributor for ASCP.
0:00:25.8 Maggie Staszcuk: And I am Maggie Staszcuk, licensed esthetician and ASCP's cosmetology education manager.
0:00:31.5 Tracy Donley: And I am Tracy Donley, executive director of Associated Skincare Professionals. And I am so excited to be with you ladies today. What are we talking about?
0:00:40.4 EC: Oh my gosh. I have something really exciting to tell you guys. So recently I traveled for work and on my way home, I sat next to a gentleman and a lady. And usually I'm one of those people too, on the way going somewhere, I'm super talkative, but on the way home, especially after that week, I didn't really wanna talk to anybody but alas, we ended up having an amazing conversation, the three of us and it turns out the person I was sitting next to was a gentleman who was coming to Denver to... He's a certified Halal person. So Halal is a... We'll get into that in a minute.
0:01:15.2 TD: Yeah. I'm dying to know. Yeah.
0:01:17.5 EC: So Halal is an Arabic word meaning lawful or permitted but it's a set of dietary laws from the Quran and I had just read about Halal skincare ingredients and Halal certification. So he was a certified... He was of an agency that's certified. So I ended up asking him a bunch of questions and it sparked in me this need to dig further. So when I got back home, I just said, "You know what? Let's examine this further." And come to find out, there's something that we've talked about previously on here. Last year we talked about certification, right?
0:01:50.8 TD: Yep.
0:01:51.3 EC: Certified organic in particular with Tuivoo. And then we have just recently talked about clean green and sustainable and what that meant. And so after lots of digging, I found something interesting. So I'm gonna ask the question, cruelty free, Kosher, vegan and Halal. What do you think they have in common?
0:02:07.8 TD: They're cruelty free.
0:02:09.2 EC: They all are a certification. There's all a certification for it absolutely but how are they different? How are they certified? Are they important designations? Absolutely. What's very interesting when we're looking at cruelty free and vegan, those are something that's become more and more popular and the certification process for that is they're very closely related to Kosher and Halal.
0:02:33.4 TD: Right. That's what I was gonna say. They're respecting a certain way of treating the product.
0:02:39.2 EC: Yes. Yes, absolutely. So the certification, like these products that we have, we see like cruelty free and we see the bunny, Leaping bunny or PETA certified, or we see vegan, these certified stamps on product labeling. There's actually a certified process for that. And what does that mean? So let's define those. So cruelty free, to have a product be certified cruelty free, that means that no animals were harmed in the making of this product. So oftentimes that cruelty free marker is it's not just the end product, we'll get into that. Now Kosher, Kosher is from the Hebrew word meaning pure or fit and it is a set of dietary laws from the Bible or Torah. And that means that you have to follow a certain way of doing things and we'll find out, it's really closely related to cruelty free. Then we have vegan and vegan skincare, different from cruelty free means that there's absolutely no animal byproducts used to make this product. And Halal... And we just kind of talked about it, very closely related to vegan.
0:03:42.0 TD: I knew it. I knew you were gonna say that. I just had a little spidey sense.
0:03:45.8 EC: Yeah. Yeah.
0:03:46.4 TD: It was fascinating. Let's keep on keeping on. I'm digging in.
0:03:49.5 EC: So when we're sitting here thinking, what is the... Why do I need to know about this? Let's understand.
0:03:54.8 TD: Yeah. How is that applicable to me? Why should I care as an esthetician or the consumer?
0:04:00.7 EC: That's a great question. Let's get into it.
0:04:01.0 TD: I want to, let's do it.
0:04:02.2 EC: Cruelty free there's just a couple... Here's something else I'm gonna tell you guys behind the back of my hand, is that not all bunnies on packages mean that they're certified cruelty free.
0:04:14.7 MS: That boggles my mind. I feel like that's bamboozling people.
0:04:18.2 TD: That actually makes me angry. I'm angry.
0:04:20.3 EC: It should. It should. And it used to make me angry as a consultant and I would see these things happening. "Oh, we're just gonna put them up on there. We got the imaging from Shutterstock or something else" And they put them up there.
0:04:32.6 TD: Yeah. And no one questions it 'cause it's not like you have a little QR code next to it that takes you right to the list of everybody who's cruelty free.
0:04:39.6 EC: No.
0:04:41.0 TD: They should.
0:04:41.9 EC: It's just this blind trust. "Oh, they say they're cruelty free. They say they're vegan. That's awesome" But let's dig in a little bit more and understand this. So I went down the rabbit hole.
0:04:51.8 TD: I get it. That's too funny. And it's Easter this weekend. [chuckle] Oh, just another side. Okay. Anyhow.
0:05:00.0 EC: Going down the rabbit hole of what is really certified cruelty free mean and I found two really good organizations, PETA and Leaping Bunny. The interesting thing about both of these is that they're each nonprofit 501c3. And the rationale that I had been told previously from these other companies, I'm like, "Why are you doing it that way? Shouldn't we just take the steps to get certified?" "Oh, it's expensive" Was the answer. Not so much, because the process to become certified cruelty free, free.
0:05:28.8 TD: What?
0:05:29.4 MS: Wow.
0:05:29.8 TD: Okay. Say it again.
0:05:31.2 EC: The process to become certified cruelty free is free. Now, there is a cost and we're gonna get to that. So let's talk about the difference between PETA and Leaping bunny. So PETA is a global animal testing that is animal tests free, so these are companies and brands that have verified that they and their suppliers do not conduct, commission, pay for, or allow any tests on animals for their ingredients, check, formulations, check, or finished products anywhere in the world and that they will never do so in the future.
0:06:04.6 TD: Can they use them on humans?
0:06:07.7 EC: Yes, because this is not... What would that be, ETA?
0:06:09.8 TD: Okay, I was just...
0:06:10.7 EC: Or HETA.
0:06:13.2 TD: No, I'm just saying it because you do want people to be testing products, not just popping up formulations into a bottle and being like, "Alright, this looks good to me."
0:06:22.2 MS: Yeah, right.
0:06:22.4 EC: And in vitro, in vivo, real life, right? Not just petri dish, which would be in vitro. And that's where it should be tested because we're closely related to some but what do I have in common with a mouse? What do I have in common with a bunny?
0:06:38.3 TD: Or a sweet little monkey.
0:06:39.9 EC: Or a monkey. Yeah. And we talked about that too not to plug another podcast but in the comedogenic scale.
0:06:44.2 TD: That's good.
0:06:45.3 EC: The comedogenic, or comedogeneric, as I like to refer to it...
0:06:49.2 TD: Oh, snappy snap.
0:06:50.2 EC: And what that means, those were bunny tested. So the other thing that PETA is, is the global animal test-free and vegan, they provide that too. So the difference between animal test-free and animal test-free and vegan, is that companies recognize, or companies and brands that they have met the requirements to the product, the ingredients, the finished products is also free of animal-derived ingredients. They're cruelty free and they don't have anything which includes...
0:07:19.7 TD: Animals products.
0:07:20.8 EC: Honey.
0:07:21.2 TD: Ooh, honey.
0:07:22.2 EC: Honey. Something that you wouldn't really think of. So to become PETA cruelty free with the PETA bunny is free but to use that stamp on your products is a $350 licensing fee to use that logo.
0:07:37.2 TD: Per year?
0:07:38.0 EC: Per year.
0:07:38.7 TD: That's nothing...
0:07:39.7 EC: Nothing.
0:07:39.8 TD: That's like peanuts.
0:07:41.1 EC: But the process to go back and make sure that every ingredient from every supplier, that's our ____ part.
0:07:47.7 TD: That's where it gets thunders.
0:07:49.7 EC: That's the part that companies don't really wanna open themselves up to, and the other part is they also would have to disclose the labs that they're working in to make sure that they're not mixing with other products, or next to other products that have been tested. So then you have, as we talked about with Tuivoo-certified facilities. Next, we have Leaping Bunny, so that's another one that has been around for a long time. Also the 501C3 and they certify cosmetic personal care and household cleaning products, companies that pledge to refrain from animal testing again through all phases of production. And that's for ingredients, sourcing and that's... That making sure... Think of, oh, like a peptide and making sure that this peptide, to your point, Tracy, can produce the results that it said.
0:08:17.7 EC: Make sure this ingredient has never been tested on animals, and then this formula is not tested on animals, and then it goes further. So they certify for US or Canada-based companies that sell their own line of personal care or household products. This is some of the qualifications that they give. Also, they certify for companies that are ready to ban animal testing on ingredients, formulations and finished products, and they certify for suppliers and manufacturers that do not conduct animal testing for the ingredients, same thing. And they ask that if you're wanting to become Leaping Bunny certified that you're prepared to make a commitment against any new animal testing from this day forward.
0:09:20.5 TD: Okay. So as you are going through all of this, the business-minded person that I am, this is a lot, this is... You're gonna have to hire someone within your company to oversee all of this. It's a lot.
0:09:35.9 EC: Well...
0:09:37.9 TD: I get it. And so, number one, it makes me angry when the thought of people literally just popping this downloaded logo on their packaging, I feel like super mad.
0:09:48.8 EC: It's an arduous process. It's a lot of work for sure.
0:09:52.0 TD: It's a lot, and it's gotta be long, this isn't... You wouldn't just... They wouldn't take 30 days and like, "Oops, we got it."
0:09:58.0 EC: Yeah, for those who are, heck, yeah, boast about it, and be proud of it. And usually those who are, or because they have the moral... Their company has that moral compass, that that is what the moral...
0:10:11.0 TD: And that's great. Yes.
0:10:12.8 EC: Cornerstone. That this is one of the things they're built on.
0:10:15.0 TD: Yeah, that that's important.
0:10:15.8 EC: And that that is important. And that is important to like there's a growing population of consumers that that is important to.
0:10:21.9 TD: Most definitely.
0:10:22.4 MS: I think there's a huge segment that's looking for this. I think it's more than growing to your point a lot. I also think that for companies that should be built into the business plan, you know what I mean? They have hired that...
0:10:36.0 EC: Start that way.
0:10:36.3 MS: Person, or that lab, or maybe it's a whole staff of people. Yeah, they need to start that way. For companies that want to evolve and develop this, then they need to re-evaluate their model and not think, "How can we cut corners to be Leaping Bunny certified," but actually follow through and make it happen.
0:10:55.1 EC: And then that process becomes easier so that new product development.
0:10:58.7 TD: Yeah.
0:11:00.7 EC: Yeah.
0:11:01.8 MS: It depends on this segment that's looking for the Leaping Bunny or looking for the cruelty free. It may not be enough just to hear, "Hey, we are cruelty free," and maybe that they need to see that logo.
0:11:12.3 EC: It's true.
0:11:13.0 MS: And recognize what that logo is not just the bunny on the package.
0:11:17.5 TD: Hey, guys, stop. Let's take a quick break.
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0:11:58.4 TD: Let's get back to the conversation.
0:12:00.8 EC: So speaking of grey areas in education.
0:12:03.1 TD: Yes.
0:12:03.9 EC: I decided to educate myself so I keep digging down this rabbit hole, and I find this organization, the certification organization, and I have questions. So I called them up. It's a company called Earth Kosher.
0:12:18.3 TD: Earth Kosher.
0:12:19.3 EC: Turns out they're in Boulder. And I speak with Rabbi Goldman.
0:12:23.0 TD: So cool.
0:12:24.0 EC: It was so cool. He was so generous with his time. It was so fun talking to him.
0:12:27.5 TD: Are we gonna have a tour with him?
0:12:29.0 EC: I can ask him.
0:12:30.0 TD: I'd love to meet him.
0:12:31.0 EC: Absolutely. It was so fun to talk to him and hear his pronunciation of different words, and I'm writing them down in my ____, like you know how I hear them, and then I go check it out to see if I spelled it right. It's so not, so not. And so he was talking about Kosher and Kosher skincare and certification as he is literally the authority here 'cause they have a certification company, and he talks about...
0:12:55.8 EC: Is what he called it, and that is really the base of what they do, and that means literally that they want to ensure that they're not profiting or benefiting from the suffering of living creatures, and I thought, "Oh cruelty free, there you go." And that that comes from their religious teachings, from their religious books...
0:13:16.9 TD: The Torah.
0:13:17.2 EC: The Torah and the Bible. And so that means when they're doing things, they are using animals, but when they're processing... I won't go into descriptive words if they're processing...
0:13:27.7 TD: The humane way, yeah.
0:13:28.5 EC: In a humane way that it's in a facility. That's a humane way. And then the other part of that is that things are not mixing, so if you're eating Kosher, you cannot mix dairy with meat.
0:13:40.3 TD: And you have Kosher kitchens, so you probably wouldn't have Kosher formulation... Oh my gosh, I might... I might give you...
0:13:47.3 EC: So you have a Kosher kitchens, or if you're living in a Kosher home and you have a Kosher cutting board for cheese and Kosher cutting board for me and a knife for cheese and a knife for meat. And so when you're talking about product manufacturing...
0:14:00.2 TD: Oh I love this.
0:14:01.0 EC: Yeah, this is something that they go to the facility to figure out, is this is a consideration for them, are you... First off, are you producing only... Are you the only person producing in this facility or are using a shared facility? Which is common for especially smaller companies. If you're using a shared facility, oftentimes the benefit of that is that you can use shared equipment. So then they have to understand who used it before you... Who else is using it? And are there ingredients or are there processes...
0:14:30.9 TD: To separate or Kosher.
0:14:32.7 EC: Yeah. So one consideration the next thing that they look at is the raw materials, are these Kosher... Are these Kosher for... If you are using animal byproducts or following different things that go into their loss... Can they be consumed? Basically, the long story short, with the Kosher part, is it harming me as a human to consume it and is it respectfully coming from earth or animal?
0:15:00.3 MS: So I have some questions because really when we think about manufacturing a product, there really are not a lot of labs out there, so it's probably very likely that this Kosher product is being created in a lab where other products that are potentially not Kosher, were created. Correct?
0:15:16.8 EC: Potentially, yes.
0:15:19.6 MS: So what does that mean for them?
0:15:21.2 EC: They have a specialty lab, so there's limited amount, a lot... So there's a couple of different ways to look for Kosher products, you can... A lot of the information that I was finding was looking at the ingredients and doing a lot of digging as a consumer doing a lot of digging...
0:15:37.5 TD: That's tough, tough enough to look at it.
0:15:38.9 EC: And even for cruelty free, same thing right? Or if I have some kind of an allergy to look at that way, and for this, this would be like a moral allergy. If you will. So there's some big brands that they can use at certain times of the year and certain days of the week, by the way, which we're gonna get to, but they can't... They have to really dissect it, and it depends on the level of Kosher that they're holding, if they're super orthodox, then they have companies that produce that, or super orthodox in Orthodox areas and... Think of that area of Hasidic Jews in New York.
0:16:14.3 TD: Oh yeah.
0:16:15.7 EC: They have a skincare company that comes out of there, and that's widely known. So the ingredients in particular, are they pure... What was the source? Honestly, they don't want animal derivatives for topical use, nothing with gelatin, nothing with tallow, nothing with snail mucus and nothing with caviar, so there goes Korean skincare out.
0:16:33.6 TD: Well, yeah, that's what I was just gonna say, specially caviar, and then just the other day, I mean, what is snail mucus used for again? I was... Weren't we just talking about that in the last podcast?
0:16:44.8 EC: Snail mucus is in some... It sounds so gross, right.
0:16:48.6 TD: It does. Hey, would you like some snail boogers?
0:16:51.3 EC: Yes please sign me up [laughter]
0:16:51.5 TD: To make my eyes look less puffy... Excellent.
0:16:53.9 EC: I love it. [chuckle] They have all kinds of different, even treatment options. Remember those fish that would eat the dead skin ____.
0:17:00.4 TD: Yeah...
0:17:02.7 EC: And they have these... They'll put a snail on your face and let it crawl around.
0:17:05.2 TD: Oh okay.
0:17:05.6 MS: I heard that there was actually extracts that they've been putting in different types of products in you. I digress. Keep on, keep on.
0:17:13.1 EC: They... There is. You're right, 100%. And so speaking of that, an ingredient, you can have a Kosher product, but there's other considerations... Yes, this is a pure ingredient, yes this is Kosherly sourced, but certain times of the year like Passover, for example, for those eight days during Passover, they cannot benefit from or profit from anything that has certain ingredients in it, period. So that's when they have the flat bread because of the way they had to leave.
0:17:41.5 TD: Mm-hmm.
0:17:41.5 EC: And they couldn't have not spelt in anything. So products that have no wheat, Nori, no oats, and again, no spelt, nothing that rises... So that means during that time, during Passover and also during Sabbath that they can't have these certain forbidden ingredients, so when you think about those, a lot of times those are emulsifiers in products, think of Xanthan gum, for example, or they couldn't use even something like Aveeno, because those are really oat-based products.
0:18:09.6 TD: Wow, we were just talking about colloidal oatmeal. It's interesting.
0:18:13.8 EC: Yeah. And that would be not Kosher, during Passover. Also, they couldn't use those during Sabbath. And so when we look at vegan, vegan certification, of course there's no animal by-products and to be certified similar process, they wanna make sure that you're not using anything again, gelatin or certain... Think of squalene, for example, if you're using squalene... Is it from shark liver or is it from sugar cane?
0:18:39.3 TD: How about collagen? That's usually a gelatin based, isn't?
0:18:42.5 EC: Collagen is an excellent example of a forbidden... Potentially forbidden ingredient. So they're like, "Oh, collagen let's dig deeper." So a lot of digging in and researching. So the vegan certification or the vegan mindset for skincare is very similar to Halal, which is also following up just like cruelty free, and then Kosher, Halal is very similar to Kosher, were there's adherence to a following of a certain path, and so dietary, they can eat animals if they're processed in a certain way, but for skincare no.
0:19:20.7 TD: Interesting so they can ingest, but they can't put it on their face.
0:19:26.8 EC: So Halal means permissible or lawful and Haram means harmful. So no Haram ingredients. [laughter] So anything that will not cause harm. So this could be potentially... This definition is so broad that this could be anything that could irritate your skin.
0:19:41.8 TD: Ooh. Like a retinol or alpha-hydroxy.
0:19:44.3 EC: Potentially.
0:19:45.0 TD: Yeah.
0:19:45.9 EC: Potentially. So no toxins, no methyl parabens, no... This changes the preservative game. And then lipstick and perfume are two products. Another part of Halal law or Muslim law is the way they consume things. And, absolutely no alcohol. So the alcohol definition is a little different. So with lipstick, because it can be potentially digested and there's no animal byproducts, they have to look at things like lecithin, glycerol, fatty acids, collagen, but also some coloring. Some coloring comes from insects.
0:20:22.3 TD: Wow.
0:20:22.6 EC: Carmine for example.
0:20:23.8 TD: Yeah. Yeah.
0:20:25.8 EC: And that would be considered Haram. Harmful. And then we look at alcohols like perfume. They're not... They don't... To keep Halal, they don't wear perfumes because perfumes have alcohol. And because you could potentially inhale the perfume.
0:20:39.8 TD: Or if you're really thirsty, you could drink it. [laughter] And you had a rough day.
0:20:43.9 EC: If you have had a rough day.
0:20:45.0 TD: Just kidding.
0:20:45.6 EC: Not if you're holding Halal.
0:20:47.0 MS: Oh, right. I'm gonna do it.
0:20:49.0 EC: So this is no ethanol alcohol, no fermented alcohol or byproducts. And the other thing that's interesting with this, this is a conversation I had with Abdul on the plane is, no tartaric acid. And so tartaric acid like glycolic acid is an alpha-hydroxy. So you'd have to make sure that's not in your products.
0:21:03.9 TD: Whoa. This one's tough. This one is a lie.
0:21:07.3 EC: And lactic acid because lactic is derived from milk.
0:21:10.5 TD: Right.
0:21:11.4 EC: So it is better of looking at that. So nothing with ethyl alcohol, ethylene or methylated spirits whatsoever. And that's because this ethanol form can penetrate the skin to some degree and that can enter your bloodstream to some kind of a measurable amount.
0:21:28.9 MS: That's really interesting because there's a lot of ingredients that you can argue are not doing harm, but they are penetrating the skin or potentially entering the bloodstream.
0:21:36.1 TD: Yeah. Entering the bloodstream. Yeah. And then you also think to yourself, then what's left on the table? What's active? What kind of good skincare... You know what I'm saying? If you're starting to check off this list of all these things that you can't... You have to get creative.
0:21:53.1 EC: It's tough.
0:21:54.5 TD: Yeah. It's tough. You gotta get creative.
0:21:56.0 EC: So if you're thinking of like for example, no fermented ingredients and no probiotics, you have to think of a different way to serve the microbiome or absolutely no be... Here's another one that's Haram, is hydroquinone. So no hydroquinone but could get creative and think of sea fennel extract, for example, or other brightening agents that are naturally derived like ____ as long as it's not fermented [laughter] With Halal, the interesting part too, is that the entire supply chain process must be compliant to be certified Halal. That means even packaging, labeling, handling and storage.
0:22:33.0 TD: Whoa. That... It's impressive. It's a commitment. I think, wow, this is a lot, right. It's like my brain is like...
0:22:43.5 TD: So I think to myself, what does this mean to the esthetician? What does this mean then to the consumer? Like break it down for me, lay it all out, connect the dots, girl.
0:22:54.1 EC: Let's talk about why it's important to understand or be aware of these certifications specifically. We know vegan and cruelty free and why they're important to some. A moral compass or set of personal ethics. And then...
0:23:06.5 TD: And that could be anybody.
0:23:06.9 EC: Anybody.
0:23:07.6 TD: In any religion?
0:23:11.3 EC: Any religion.
0:23:13.1 TD: So it doesn't... Yeah. It's anybody.
0:23:14.3 EC: So why do we need to understand Kosher and Halal?
0:23:14.3 TD: Yes.
0:23:14.4 EC: Well, it could be said that if you do find a Kosher brand, for example, that you have that leg up to make sure yes, absolutely this is cruelty free. And how I know is because their standards are so much higher or they have to adhere to a certain set of standards. So this is cruelty free. Not only that, but blah blah. So for that, perhaps it aligns with your personal or moral position.
0:23:33.9 TD: So is... I might have missed it, but is there a Kosher stamp?
0:23:37.3 EC: Yes.
0:23:37.6 TD: Is there a logo? Okay. There is.
0:23:40.1 EC: There's a couple different we talked to Rabbi Goldman [laughter] yeah. He has a certification.
0:23:47.4 TD: Is there Halal?
0:23:48.5 EC: Yes, there's Halal certification.
0:23:49.9 TD: Certification.
0:23:51.5 EC: And, in fact, speaking of Halal, one of the biggest growing trends, according to research Cosmos, it's a market research firm, is that they estimate Halal cosmetic industry to be worth... Ready?
0:24:03.8 TD: I'm ready.
0:24:05.3 EC: 53.81 billion by 2025, which is.
0:24:08.9 TD: In the world?
0:24:10.0 EC: Couple over the world. Couple years from now.
0:24:12.3 TD: Amazing.
0:24:12.9 EC: It's amazing. So it's growing and Halal faster than Kosher, but Kosher's gonna be right behind it.
0:24:17.6 TD: Isn't Muslim the fastest growing religion in the world right now?
0:24:21.8 EC: Oh, that is a great question.
0:24:22.3 TD: Yeah, I believe it is.
0:24:23.6 EC: Yeah. So it's important to be aware of that, especially as we're in communities that are growing...
0:24:29.4 TD: More diverse.
0:24:29.8 EC: Melding together. And so another reason to be aware of this and maybe to consider looking into this for now is as it's a growing industry, is could be a way to distinguish yourself from other professionals and to become a specialist, especially right now.
0:24:43.8 TD: Oh, it's down. Maggie knows I'm about a niche.
0:24:48.3 EC: Yeah.
0:24:48.4 TD: Find your niche. Niche it out, niche, niche, niche.
0:24:51.0 EC: And here's your opportunity. So it's really cool. I found it very fascinating. I thought it was very interesting and I can't wait to find out what else happens.
0:25:00.8 MS: I think that even if it is not specifically your niche, to just market that I am cruelty free. And by the way, my products are Kosher. You may find that all of a sudden you are bringing in a segment of clientele that you never had before.
0:25:16.8 EC: And they might think finally.
0:25:18.1 TD: Finally oh my gosh, I'm gonna tell all my friends I'm going there.
0:25:20.4 EC: And maybe they're not holding a 100 percent Kosher.
0:25:22.9 TD: Right.
0:25:23.1 EC: But that might be the tipping point for them.
0:25:26.8 TD: Oh, I'm gonna go there.
0:25:26.8 EC: If I'm gonna go A or B, I choose B because they're...
0:25:29.6 TD: I agree with that a 100%, yeah.
0:25:31.3 EC: Yeah. Yeah. So it's very interesting. There's a lot more we could have gone into, on these things cause there's degrees and all this stuff, but as far as adhering to the religion itself, but for the purpose of skincare and the skincare professional, just being aware of that is...
0:25:47.4 TD: I think it'd be so fun to hear from everybody on social media to see if they've heard of it. If they think it's something they'd wanna include. And I think it'd be really fun for us as a team to just continue monitoring what those stats look like and how many more companies like that are coming out with products that are Kosher or Halal.
0:26:09.5 EC: Yeah, absolutely. And perhaps we can take a field trip to Boulder and come back and report what we find.
0:26:17.5 TD: Yeah.
0:26:17.8 EC: Talk to Rabbi Goldman, for sure. It'd be awesome.
0:26:20.1 TD: I love it.
0:26:21.1 EC: Now, listeners, we wanna hear from you, what are your thoughts on Halal, Kosher, vegan, cruelty free and their role in skincare. As a professional, how do you address these? Are you excited about these? What do you know about these? What do you wanna know? Let us know, reach out on our social media platforms, especially Instagram and Facebook or by emailing email@example.com. We want to know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP ST talk. For more information on this episode or ways to connect with Maggie or myself, or to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty talk.
0:27:00.0 S1: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more subscribe, if you wanna belong to the only all inclusive association for estheticians, that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights, and an opportunity to spotlight your six skills, join at ascpskincare.com only $259 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows it's all about you.Page Break