Ep 92 - Etiquette for the Esthetician: Guidelines for the Professional

woman consults with client in the treatment room

Ever wonder if you’re handling a situation correctly? What are the rules? What are the guidelines? Listen in with special guest Tracy Donley as we discuss esthetic etiquette both in dealing with clients and other professionals.

ASCP Esty Talk with hosts Ella Cressman and Maggie Staszcuk  

Produced by Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) for licensed estheticians, ASCP Esty Talk is a weekly podcast, hosted by licensed estheticians, Ella Cressman, ASCP Skin Deep Magazine contributor and Maggie Staszcuk, ASCP Education Specialist. We see your passion, innovation, and hard work and are here to support you by providing a platform for networking, advocacy, camaraderie, and education. We aim to inspire you to ask the right questions, find your motivation, and give you the courage to have the professional skin care career you desire.


About Ella Cressman:

Ella Cressman is a licensed esthetician, certified organic formulator, business owner, ingredient junkie and esthetic cheerleader! As an educator, she enjoys empowering other estheticians and industry professionals to understand skin care from an ingredient standpoint rather than a product-specific view.

In addition to running a skin care practice, Cressman founded a comprehensive consulting group, the HHP Collective, and has consulted for several successful skin care brands.

Connect with Ella Cressman:

Website: www.hhpcollective.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ella-cressman-62aa46a


About Maggie Staszcuk:

Maggie has been a licensed esthetician since 2006 and holds a bachelor’s degree in business administration from Stephens College. She has worked in the spa and med-spa industry, and served as an esthetics instructor and a director of education for one of the largest schools in Colorado before coming to ASCP as the Cosmetology Education Manager. 

Connect with Maggie:

P 800.789.0411 EXT 1636

MStaszcuk@ascpskincare.com or AMI@ascpskincare.com


About our Sponsors

About DMK:

Founded by botanical visionary Danné Montague-King, DMK is the World Leader in Paramedical Skin Revision™. Our revolutionary concept of REMOVE. REBUILD. PROTECT. MAINTAIN.® aims to match an individual’s biochemistry with the appropriate skin therapy. DMK believes that the origin of most skin conditions is a result of disharmony within the skin. Using the principles of biochemistry, DMK has formulated a range of Enzymatic Treatments and Home Prescriptives that encourage the skin to return to its most balanced and healthy state. For skin care professionals whose business depends on generating long-lasting clinically-proven results, DMK’s education-first approach has become essential. Hundreds of salons, spas, and even industry experts have recognized the effectiveness of the DMK concept, witnessed by thousands of people worldwide whose lives have been changed forever.

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About Universal Companies:

Universal Companies has everything the skin care professional needs for success. Keeping track of the latest trends and technology in esthetics, we offer products and equipment for the services clients are seeking. The independent practitioner can save on their everyday expenses, as well as enjoy the convenience of shopping across broad categories.

Recognized as the "Favorite Distributor" in the American Spa Professional's Choice Awards for the past 17 years, we see this as a continuous challenge to provide the best products, tools, and education that pros trust the most.

Beyond our extensive selection of spa products, equipment, and tools we have an education and marketing site for our customers to develop their skills and promote their business. The UCo Learning Network offers CEU courses, marketing kits, and business tools.


Connect with Universal Companies:

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About Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP):

Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) is the nation’s largest association for skin care professionals and your ONLY all-inclusive source for professional liability insurance, education, community, and career support. For estheticians at every stage of the journey, ASCP is your essential partner. Get in touch with us today if you have any questions or would like to join and become an ASCP member.


Connect with ASCP:

Website: www.ascpskincare.com

Email: getconnected@ascpskincare.com

Phone: 800-789-0411

Facebook: www.facebook.com/ASCPskincare

Instagram: www.instagram.com/ascpskincare


0:00:00.5 Speaker 1: DMK is the world leader in paramedical skin revision education with certification programs designed to give licensed professionals a thorough understanding of the skin and an in-depth study of the DMK concept of remove, rebuild, protect, maintain. Created by the botanical visionary Danne Montague-King, DMK offers skin revision training and education for all ages, skin conditions and ethnicities in more than 35 countries, harnessing the body's innate healing mechanisms to change the health of the skin. Learn more @dannemking.com, that's D-A-N-N-E-M-K-I-N-G dot com. 




0:00:49.9 S1: You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk, where we share insider tips, industry resources and education for aestheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk 'cause ASCP knows it's all about you. 


0:01:05.3 Ella Cressman: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I am your co-host, Ella Cressman, a licensed aesthetician, certified organic skin care formulator and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals. 


0:01:16.5 Maggie Staszcuk: And I am Maggie Staszcuk, licensed aesthetician and cosmetology education manager. And joining us is Tracy Donley, Executive Director for ASCP. 


0:01:25.8 Tracy Donley: Hello, I'm so excited to be here. 


0:01:28.2 EC: Hi Tracy. 


0:01:31.1 TD: Hi. 


0:01:31.2 EC: So you guys I have a problem. I have a nightmare client and I want to let her go. Well, this is not the first time that I have had to fire a client, but it's a long-standing client, and it's an interesting story because she's intermingled into some of my friend group. So I gotta handle this one very delicately. I was looking up etiquette rules for aestheticians... 


0:01:54.5 TD: Of course you did. 'Cause you were just gonna get all analytical on it. 


0:02:00.3 EC: Totally, and I wanted to make sure I was doing... This one I'm scared about, I'm scared about this one. And I couldn't find anything, and I found on spa professionals or hospitality professionals etiquette on how to come into the spa, even etiquette on how to be on your female cycle in the spa, but I did not find anything... 


0:02:17.4 MS: Is that a thing? [laughter] 


0:02:21.0 TD: Okay. 




0:02:21.1 TD: You can't even just roll past that, that is insane in the membrane. 


0:02:26.4 EC: It's on there, but what's not online is how to professionally fire a client. So then it got me thinking about etiquette as an aesthetician and what we learned and what we know. So I thought this would be a good time to set down some code of conduct or some guidelines on aesthetic etiquette, both when dealing with your clients, but also dealing with other professionals. So Maggie, what did you teach about professional etiquette in school?  


0:02:58.5 MS: Well, it's funny you're asking, this was actually a chapter in one of the textbooks, but it wasn't so much about etiquette, I don't think, it was more like, make sure you're taking a shower, make sure you're showing up on time. 


0:03:09.4 EC: Hygiene, hygiene. 


0:03:11.1 MS: Yeah, exactly. Not, what does it mean to be professional, and not so much about bedside manner and how did you behave with a client, it was, "Listen, kids, you're now an adult... " 


0:03:28.4 TD: Shower, please. 


0:03:29.2 MS: Yeah. 


0:03:29.5 TD: Trim your nails. 


0:03:30.0 MS: Put your deodorant on. 


0:03:31.9 EC: Don't let your earrings dingle... I almost said dingle, but that's totally different. 


0:03:36.6 MS: Yeah, yes. 




0:03:39.0 MS: Don't dingle your jewelry. 




0:03:40.3 EC: Don't dingle your dangles. 


0:03:43.3 MS: Yeah. 


0:03:43.4 EC: But yeah... 


0:03:43.8 TD: Does that mean putting your tatas in someone's face accidentally?  


0:03:45.0 EC: That you gotta be cognizant of. 


0:03:45.9 MS: Yeah, you do. 


[overlapping conversation] 


0:03:49.4 TD: Is that in the book?  


0:03:50.3 MS: Yeah, no cleavage. 


0:03:51.3 TD: Okay. Oh, it is in the book. 


0:03:52.3 MS: Yeah. 


0:03:52.8 TD: Oh jeez. 


0:03:52.8 EC: It's a lot about how to present, but not about how to act. 


0:03:57.0 MS: Right, that's a good way to put it. 


0:03:58.4 EC: Well, let's explore some points for professionals... Put some points of etiquette that we've learned in the real world, shall we?  


0:04:06.1 MS: Yeah. 


0:04:07.1 EC: I know we talked about this with Belinda and whoopsie-daisy accidents, but it's one thing that we need to be very specific on and that's to be concise. She shared her story about the Brazilian blow out, the client thought they were there for a different kind of Brazilian, and I have also been in a situation where I wasn't completely concise, and I walk into the room and the client is wearing their wrap like a superhero robe. 


0:04:32.8 TD: Like around their shoulders?  


0:04:33.7 EC: Yeah, with their feet on the head part. And I'm like, "Okay." It's reminded me to be super concise about, "Hey, I'm gonna step out of the room, you're gonna put this robe on, this is how you're gonna put it on, this is where you're gonna put your head, and then I will be back in," like setting an expectation. And even when leaving the room, "I'm gonna step out, you're gonna get dressed and I'm gonna see you out front," because I've had it to where people are just hanging out in the room for way too long. What do I do?  


0:04:58.1 MS: You know what happens often too, is people who have never had a facial before, and you say, "Make yourself comfortable, I'll be right back," they're there for a facial, and you walk into the treatment room and they're face down. 


0:05:09.9 TD: Yes. 




0:05:10.7 TD: Okay. Do they think you're gonna get down on the floor, do their face?  




0:05:15.3 MS: What do you think is happening here today?  


0:05:18.5 EC: That's a different facial. 




0:05:20.2 MS: Face up show, not a face down show. 




0:05:25.3 EC: Something else to think of too, and this is kind of a role that I am a huge fan of, and that's being respectful and it's not just being respectful, like, "Hi, good mornings," that way. But during a consultation don't finger wag. And what I mean by that is not to make anyone feel less than... 


0:05:45.0 TD: Shaming. 


0:05:46.5 EC: Yeah. 


0:05:47.0 TD: No shaming. 


0:05:47.5 EC: No shaming. I don't wear sunscreen. Great, I need to understand where we're coming from. This is not a time to explain the benefit of sunscreen, you can do that along the way, but never make them feel uncomfortable or abnormal. Make them feel like, "Hey, yeah, me too." Or that I think that's really important. 


0:06:05.9 MS: Yeah, I think that comment about respect spreads across so many areas, not just with product that you're using, but whether or not they've had treatments before, comments they're making to you about what they know or don't know. 


0:06:23.6 TD: Or even too... Along that same line, sometimes your clients get really comfortable with you and they may share information like, "I'm getting a divorce, I'm cheating on my husband." 


0:06:32.7 EC: Yeah. 


0:06:34.8 TD: "My child is like this." I mean, respect goes there too. 


0:06:38.7 EC: And discretion. 


0:06:40.0 TD: And discretion. 


0:06:41.6 EC: And that's one thing that I'll say to them too, it's like, "Anything that happens in this room stays in this room." And so you hear a lot of things. 


0:06:47.9 MS: And you see a lot of things. 


0:06:49.3 EC: You see a lot of things. 


0:06:51.3 TD: I saw your eyebrow go up there Maggie, what does that mean? You're like... 




0:06:56.4 MS: Well, you know that some of those services are very intimate, and what people's bodies look like or what they choose to do to their bodies, you're not there to judge, you're just there to provide the service. 


0:07:09.2 EC: Yeah, I think that's key to making them feel good, at the end of it that's what you wanna do is make them feel good, but also you want to be gracious with that, be grateful for gratuities, be grateful for their patronage, and be gracious with rescheduling, [chuckle] 'cause that's one thing I think especially I've noticed lately, a lot of online posts about, "I've got a lot of cancellations, or I'm getting a cancellation today, this person's been with me for a long time, but they're gonna respect my time and I'm gonna charge the fee." Here's the deal, we are in a very uncertain time, and absolutely your time should be respected, so if people are cancelling last minute, giving an opportunity to give grace in those positions. You really don't know what's going on. There are a lot of uncertain things, there's school closures, there's traffic. 


0:08:03.4 TD: COVID, COVID. To them or their children or someone else that they're taking care of. 


0:08:08.5 EC: And I'm not sure why it's seen as a sign of disrespect, but go in assuming that... Give them an opportunity like, "This is my cancellation policy, I'm not going to enforce it this time, but let's reschedule you." 


0:08:23.8 TD: Or couldn't you even say, "I am gonna charge you this fee for your cancellation, but I will apply that to your next booking as long as it's within the next two weeks," or something like that. 


0:08:37.1 EC: Absolutely, that's another great way. I think that for me, it's just a lot to keep track of, but I know that a lot of people's POS system does that. And that's a great way to hold on to that and then ensure, another little bit of insurance. 


0:08:53.6 TD: Yeah, and it's like a little penalty, it's like a little baby one saying like, "No, no," but at the same time it's saying, "But I wanna see you back, so don't feel bad." 


0:09:01.0 EC: Yeah, I'm not going to wag my finger at you for this too. I get it, stuff comes up. I learned that from my acupuncturist because I tried to never, ever miss an appointment with her, as a professional to another professional, but it happens. The other thing that I... This is kind of... I'm gonna get personal, if you guys don't mind. This is what not to do, and that is, do not get personal. 


0:09:24.3 MS: That's is such a big one for me. 


0:09:27.6 EC: Huge, right?  


0:09:29.2 TD: Why is that you guys, is it because you just feel like the space makes you feel like you can get personal?  


0:09:35.4 MS: No. 


0:09:35.9 TD: Or does it feel like it can't?  


0:09:39.1 MS: No. I think that you have to have a boundary with your clients, it's okay for them to get personal, but you're the professional, you're taking their money, and I think that if you cross that line and you become now that best friend with your client into Ella's point, now she has a client she wants to fire, and if that's your best friend, it really is hard to let that client go. And also crossing that boundary, you then have a client who feels they can start to take advantage, maybe they're gonna cancel, maybe they're gonna show up late, they're gonna decide, "You know what, I'm not gonna tip you, we're friends," you know what I mean? So not getting personal, setting that boundary, you're the professional providing a service, but still making the clients feel like, "We are friends," they can share, they can spill their guts. You know what I mean?  


0:10:25.2 TD: Yeah, it makes tons of sense. 


0:10:26.9 EC: And I think part of it is the human experience. Some of our clients we've seen for a long time, and we've seen them through things like divorces, child birth, we hear their stories about how their kids are misbehaving, we hear their stories about their divorce but now getting into a new relationship, now they're engaged. Now they're getting married, and then you're invited to their wedding 'cause they feel a closeness to you. So there is something about that and they wanna know how are you, what are you up to. 


0:10:53.8 TD: I know that's what I was gonna say, that would be the challenge, 'cause even being on the client side, I would think as women, we especially talk to one another by relating and sharing like stories, and that's what gives you comfort and feels like, "Oh, this is symbiotic, we're on the same vibe." I just think that that is such... I can't imagine what a difficult line that would be. 


0:11:15.4 EC: And especially when you are experiencing joy, which is what happened to me. So I went on vacation a few years ago about, I guess it's almost six years ago now, though it feels like yesterday sometimes. 




0:11:30.1 MS: Are you still mourning the loss?  


0:11:31.3 EC: Not now, but... 


0:11:34.6 TD: I hope not 'cause I think she's engaged. 


0:11:36.3 EC: I went on vacation, you guys, and I pretty much 90 dayed. I don't know, do you guys watch that show, My 90-day Fiance?  


0:11:43.3 TD: Oh, yeah, it's little bit of a train wreck. 


0:11:45.5 EC: I fell in love, yeah, that was my life. I fell in love with this guy in Belize, and I came back so giddy, I had never felt so accepted, I had never felt so loved, so much attention shown on me, I was on vacation, of course. But that continued after I got home and I shared with everyone. And then they're like, "Oh my gosh, that's great." And he's coming here. He's coming to see me in Colorado a couple of months later. 


0:12:11.3 TD: Were you at the grocery store just stopping people randomly being like, "You're not gonna believe it. I met the greatest guy." 


0:12:17.7 EC: Pretty much I wore a shirt. This is my boyfriend, he is coming soon. Everyone knew that he is coming in three days, he's coming in two days, he's coming today. And that day he made it to Houston and then got turned around by immigration, and was sent back from Belize. And so the next week when I had my appointments with my clients, "Is he here? Oh, you're having so much fun." No, I had to explain for about six weeks, 'cause that's my turn around, four to six weeks. "No, he got turned around, something weird, they flagged him and they send him back for no reason," hand on my hip, "Can you believe the government?" [chuckle] And so I had made arrangements to go down to see him again when, a heart-breaking time, it was bitter sweet. I got to see him, but I knew I had to leave him. And then they came back and a couple of months later we're, "Well, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna get a lawyer?" "Yeah, probably, probably." Well, then a couple of months later, I found out actually, the reason he got turned around in Houston was that he was married. 


0:13:15.0 TD: I knew that you were gonna give me some kind of red flag in having that whole love affair. Like those chemicals that are all in your body. 


0:13:23.9 EC: Blinders?  


0:13:25.3 TD: Make those red flags pink. Maybe white... 


0:13:27.4 MS: And glittery. 


0:13:28.3 TD: And glittery. 




0:13:29.8 EC: Go, do it. Just do it. And so I then, for almost four to eight weeks after that, had to explain to my clients that he was married, and the first part, it was sad, and they cried with me. And then by the eighth week, I was like, "He was married. I don't wanna talk about it." I was done, 'cause I had to tell the story six times a day for eight weeks. 


0:13:54.0 TD: I just have to say, I'm glad that you weren't so delusional of like also saying, "He's married, but it's really no big deal, 'cause it's just on paper." 




0:14:01.8 TD: "And so we're gonna work through this." No. So, at least you weren't as crazy as you might have felt. 


0:14:06.9 EC: No, I wasn't crazy, but I was over-explaining it. I was over... And I made a vow then, that I wasn't going to share any part of my life again like that. 


0:14:17.6 EC: Hey guys, stop. Let's take a quick break. 




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0:14:58.1 EC: Let's get back to the conversation. 


0:15:01.1 EC: And that goes into another thing, and that is when you are dealing with professionals to client relations, well, they've seen other people before, and they may come to you with an experience. I'm sure we've all had those. With an experience or an advice or opinions. And I want to encourage you to never, ever, ever speak ill of another professional to a client, ever. Because your opinion differs from theirs, you can say, "This is how I would do it. This is how I would address it." But if they come in with eyelashes that are a hot mess and you know it, never say, "Girl, your lashes are a hot mess, what did they do to you? You are... " 


0:15:45.9 TD: I'm just laughing over here, because it is so true. It's so true. And then you immediately as a client, make... You just shamed them, first of all. You just actually shamed the client... 


0:15:57.6 MS: Yeah. 


0:15:58.5 TD: You then made them feel so insecure, and then you immediately as a client, start... Your human nature is to start kinda going, "Oh yeah, how are you gonna be better?" It almost is a... 


0:16:11.4 MS: You start judging the professional. 


0:16:14.7 EC: Yeah. It happened to me with... Two doors down from me is a laser clinic, and I said... We could have had a beautiful relationship of referrals. 


0:16:21.8 TD: Oh, my goodness, yeah?  


0:16:22.5 EC: 'Cause I don't do that, and she does so it would have been great. So, I sent a couple of people her way and they came back to me and they're like, "She was literally explaining why her products were here," and she motioned her hand high above her head, "And that your products are here," and she motioned her hand way down below her waist. And that's what she said, that you don't know what you're talking about. Now mind you, she's a laser technician who I am assuming is a fantabulous laser tech, but I'm an aesthetician who knows skin. Who knows skin and care of skin, and knows beyond that ingredients. And I said, "Oh, okay, well, thank you for letting me know." So, I luckily take the time to explain to my clients how ingredients work, how products work, so they came back like, "I knew it wasn't true, but it was very awkward." Yeah, I would never even down another line, I just explain why I'm referring the product I'm referring. And that goes into... And I think we should do a podcast on over-the-counter skincare products. 


0:17:17.4 TD: Oh, I totally think you should. 


0:17:18.8 EC: 'Cause that goes into explaining that too, 'cause you don't wanna explain why their L'Oreal is bad. You wanna explain maybe what they're missing, or what they're doing right. You're doing right 'cause you're looking for these things. You're doing... 


0:17:31.8 TD: A routine. 


0:17:32.8 EC: Yeah. Okay, stay tuned for that. So, when we're talking about... We're still talking about professional to client. One thing, though, the client handling them gently, you still don't have to ever tolerate abuse. Right? And that's something else that I have experienced in my spa. One of my clients was abusive, verbally abusive to one of my staff members. And we didn't tolerate it, so we were a little slightly passive-aggressive to where we made it so she couldn't book online. 




0:18:03.3 EC: So, she had to call in... 


0:18:05.4 TD: That's so bad. [laughter] 


0:18:06.8 EC: Yeah. So, she had to call in to book online, and all I said was, "You know, I don't think we're a good fit, but I'm happy to refer you to the laser clinic two doors down." No, I'm just kidding. 




0:18:18.3 TD: She's fabulous. 




0:18:18.7 TD: You'll love her. 


0:18:22.0 EC: Her products are here. 


0:18:23.1 TD: She's for people. 




0:18:23.5 EC: No, but I did say I'm happy to provide a referral, but I don't think we're best suited for each other, is what I said then. 


0:18:31.0 TD: Did you tell her why? Did you say... You didn't go into the detail. 


0:18:34.8 EC: She knew why. 


0:18:35.5 TD: Oh, she did, okay. 


0:18:36.8 EC: And I could have, but she knew why. I did tell her when she... It was a male staff member that I had when she verbally abused him. I said, "We're not going to have that, he is doing something for your benefit. And if you have questions, feel free to ask me." I did intervene at that time, but then I was like... I had a momma bear moment like, "Oh heck no, this is not happening again." And no, I didn't want her to book with him, I didn't want her to book with another female practitioner that we had, and I definitely didn't want her... I wanted her to only book with me, but she had to call in to do it. 


0:19:11.7 MS: I think that also transfers to professionals too. You shouldn't be taking any kind of abuse from your co-workers, and I think that happens in the employment setting, there's a lot of competition, a lot of cattiness. 


0:19:26.0 EC: How would we handle that?  


0:19:27.8 MS: It depends on your environment probably, but I think just important to know that there's plenty to go around and no need for that kind of behavior. And if you're in an employment setting, going to your manager or supervisor to have that conversation, and if it's a contractor setting, you certainly have that empowerment to take your business to another location, but probably just addressing it one-on-one with that person to start. 


0:19:56.2 TD: Yeah, and I would even recommend... Journaling is therapeutic. So if you've addressed it with that person that you're having the conflict with, and you've brought it to the attention of whether it's the salon spa owner where you're contracting, or if it is the employer. I think that's the first steps, but then even journaling it a little bit, because then you can use those moments, those dates, those times, if something does have to elevate. It kinda goes back to what we always say as it relates to keeping track of your clients, if maybe an accident were to happen in the treatment room, whether you think it's important information or not, write it down. 


0:20:39.7 MS: Documenting the issue. 


0:20:40.8 TD: Document it, document it. 


0:20:42.6 EC: Being a record. 


0:20:42.8 TD: Yeah. 


0:20:44.2 MS: And that goes into... I think that goes into the professional to professional relationship, and so that also... It's hard when you're in those situations, like you can leave, you can address, or you can choose to... One of my other Real House Wives of Salt Lake City, Meredith, "I'm disengaging". 




0:21:02.1 MS: And it's weird... 


0:21:02.9 TD: I love that show too much. 


0:21:04.6 MS: I know people just don't wanna play. 


0:21:05.5 EC: I get frustrated and stop playing when you stop playing, but one of the things is never bad-mouthing other pros, never doing it. What I would suggest is looking at their difference because there's a natural when you're talking about human behavior. There's a natural instinct to go, "No, that's not the way you do it, 'cause that's not how I do it", but rather than that happening, listening and seeing, is there an opportunity to learn something here? Because I learned it from someone who taught me, learned it from someone who taught them, and then that same chain is coming down this way, so what if we team up and see what I can use from you, and what if I can teach you something?  


0:21:44.2 TD: Well, and keeping in mind too that everybody's at different stages of their professional journey, so just because they may not have the background or the experiences that you've had, it doesn't mean they might not, and patience. 


0:22:00.4 EC: And also too, I learn a lot from new aestheticians still, and I would be in the seasoned aestheticians category. 


0:22:06.7 TD: Is it 'cause you have like a little gray hair, right there? I'm just kidding. [laughter] 


0:22:08.8 EC: I have a toe in the crusty rusty side where I'm like oh my gosh, but I'm like, I find inspiration from the new aestheticians who do things the way that I don't, and I'm learning from that. 


0:22:19.8 TD: I love that. 


0:22:21.9 EC: And it's one of the coolest part about our industries. And one of the things I learned is a lot about social media, [chuckle] and one of the things I learned not to do, I manage a group of almost 5,000 aestheticians in a local group here in Colorado, and most of my time spent is not spent posting, my original intention was to have it be educational, and sharing of information, and instead I am refereeing most of the time, and it's not fun, I'll tell you, it really takes the joy out of that group for me because I'm sometimes, especially right now, things are heightened, and so I have to referee a lot of online back and forth nastiness, is the best way that I can put it. 


0:23:04.1 TD: I wonder if they feel like it's a safe space. We all have issues professionally or personally, or whatever, and you're always looking for that safe space, it doesn't make it right to be mean, or bully other pros and things like that, but where is that safe space?  


0:23:19.2 EC: A journal. 


0:23:19.3 TD: Oh yeah, oh. I like that. 


0:23:24.1 MS: I don't think the safe space is the right way to put it, I think you have these community chats or whatever you wanna call it, and it just always is this breeding ground for conflict and to Ella's point, people wanna be right and they wanna say, "I am right, this is how you do it, you're wrong", and you get that debate and feud online. 


0:23:44.2 EC: Yeah, and I'm guilty of almost getting into it myself, which spiraled, I ended up not doing it. 


0:23:50.3 TD: Did you disengage?  


0:23:51.9 EC: I disengaged in a way that was like, I'm not gonna allow this to happen because this person was, "No, this is the only way it could be", and I'm like, "No". But it's... My dog just died, and it's late at night, and I don't feel like explaining this on my phone on Facebook, so I'm just going to shut the whole thing down. Well, that turned into a screenshot post onto a personal page that was then liked and commented by national... People like in their national industry who made these comments, and I'm like, "Okay, okay," and then people who made those comments then reaching out to me and asking me to help them. 


0:24:25.5 TD: Wow. 


0:24:26.3 EC: Who would despair... This is how I learned words that I had to look up in a Urban Dictionary, was from this post, and I had... And then I'm like, "Oh, but you want me to help you?" Which is another reason to never, ever, ever speak ill of another professional, especially on a public platform. 


0:24:42.8 TD: I'm dying to know, Maggie, are there any... With what Ella has mentioned so far, I know you, and there's gotta be stories that are just popping into your brain. Is there one that just keeps screaming at you that's similar? Like learning something the hard way?  


0:25:00.8 MS: I cannot think of a specific client that I have wanted to fire, or if I was dissed online, I don't know about it. 


0:25:11.8 TD: Well, you stay offline. 


0:25:12.1 MS: I do. There are a million stories of students hating me, I have been reported to the owner of the school, they do not want me as their teacher, I mean, on the other hand though, I have plenty of students who have loved me and praised me and whatever, so that's fine with me. 


0:25:30.8 TD: I know, I've talked to them. 


0:25:32.6 MS: Oh, you have?  


0:25:32.7 TD: Yeah. 




0:25:35.3 EC: But those students though, did they ever reach back out and need something?  


0:25:39.3 MS: Oh yeah. Yeah, every time. Yeah, you know, graduation's coming around and can I give them a referral, and... Yeah. 


0:25:48.0 EC: Yeah, and that's interesting how it comes when you're school... If you're in school and you're listening to this, be nice to your teachers, they are well connected. 


0:25:55.9 MS: Yeah. Well, and what I would say too is, it is a small industry. 


0:26:00.2 EC: It is a very small industry. 


0:26:02.4 MS: Everybody knows everybody, whether you recognize it or not. 


0:26:04.6 EC: Yeah. And for that too, be nice to your product reps too who also come to your school, or you know how to deal with a similar type of like... I don't know, dismissiveness, people missing appointments, canceling, like a disrespect of my time that might be... I think that's where I learned to bite my tongue, is being a sales rep, to be honest. You learn a lot of smiling through it, but we are the ones... I know I'm not a rep anymore, but we were the ones that were in touch with people who had job offerings, or we would get calls, "Hey, do you know so and so," and I would go, "Mm-hmm," which meant, "Uh-huh". 




0:26:40.4 EC: Or, "Oh yeah, she's fabulous. She's new, but she's so passionate. She'd be great... 


0:26:44.3 TD: She's gonna be great. 


0:26:45.7 EC: Or he. And that's another thing to think about too, is that a lot of times people post in these groups, "Hello ladies", "Hey, ladies, can I get some help?" But we have to acknowledge that there's men in our industry too. 


0:26:56.7 TD: But just so everyone knows, we are gonna take this list that we just went through and we are gonna put it online, we're gonna put it on social media, we're gonna put it everywhere, so when you have this moment like Ella does, or Maggie has had, where you're like, "How do I be a professional? How do I act based on this thing that just happened?" And you just need a breather, come to our website, that's ascpskincare.com, and you can find it. 


0:27:24.2 EC: I think that can be an evolving list too. 


0:27:26.0 TD: Oh gosh, yeah. I mean, people should share. 


0:27:29.4 EC: Maybe we can ask for some help from our listeners. 


0:27:30.9 TD: Oh, love it!  


0:27:34.6 EC: Why don't we ask our listeners to reach out with some of your etiquette rules that you swear by, anything we might have missed, or an expansion on some of the things we've touched on. Let us know, reach out to us on social media by commenting on our Instagram or Facebook posts, or by emailing, getconnected@ascpskincare.com. We wanna know your thoughts. 


0:27:52.9 TD: And there might be prizes!  


0:27:54.9 EC: In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself, or to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes and as always, stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP's Esty Talk. 




0:28:10.0 S1: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear and you want more, subscribe. If you wanna belong to the only all-inclusive Association for Aestheticians that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights, and an opportunity to spotlight your sick skills, join at ascpskincare.com, only $2.59 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows, it's all about you.Page Break 


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