Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) presents The Rogue Pharmacist with Benjamin Knight Fuchs. This podcast takes an enlightening approach to supporting licensed estheticians in their pursuit to achieve results-driven skin care treatments for their clients. You can always count on us to share professional skin care education, innovative techniques, and the latest in skin science.
Learn more about collagen and how to get That Healthy Glow, check out this this article brought to you by ASCP’s Skin Deep magazine.
About Benjamin Knight Fuchs, R.Ph.:
Benjamin Knight Fuchs is a registered pharmacist, nutritionist, and skin care chemist with 35 years of experience developing pharmacy-potent skin health products for estheticians, dermatologists, and plastic surgeons. Ben’s expert advice gives licensed estheticians the education and skin science to better support the skin care services performed in the treatment room while sharing insights to enhance clients’ at-home skin care routines.
Connect with Benjamin Knight Fuchs, R.Ph.:
About Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP):
Associated Skin Care Professionals (ASCP) is the nation’s largest association for skin care professionals and your ONLY all-inclusive source for professional liability insurance, education, community, and career support. For estheticians at every stage of the journey, ASCP is your essential partner. Get in touch with us today if you have any questions or would like to join and become an ASCP member.
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0:00:03.9 Tracy Donley: Welcome everybody to ASCP and The Rogue Pharmacist, Benjamin Knight Fuchs. In each episode, we will learn and explore how ingredients, chemicals, and the environment can have a positive and negative effect on our skin. I'm Tracy Donley, Executive Director of ASCP, and joining me and co-hosting is our lovely Maggie Staszcuk, our very own education specialist. Hi, Maggie.
0:00:30.5 Maggie Staszcuk: Hey Tracy.
0:00:30.8 TD: [chuckle] Hey. Okay, so I am so excited for this episode. My question to you today is, do you actually think collagen helps the skin, or is it all just hype, Maggie?
0:00:44.0 MS: I kind of think it's all just hype, I never really got on the collagen train.
0:00:48.6 TD: No? So did you take the supplements or drink the drinks?
0:00:52.3 MS: No, never did. My husband one time bought some collagen popcorn and I laughed at him for that.
0:00:58.3 TD: I'm kind of laughing about collagen popcorn, I have not seen that. So... But the good news is, guess what, guys, we've got Ben Fuchs in the house, you know it, and he is gonna be discussing all things about collagen. Hi, Ben.
0:01:14.0 Benjamin Fuchs: I feel like I have to be an advocate here.
0:01:15.9 TD: Oh boy.
0:01:16.8 BF: You're hurting my feelings a little bit 'cause, as a lover of collagen. Man, that stuff's unbelievably valuable. By the way, what's collagen popcorn?
0:01:24.1 TD: I'm not sure.
0:01:24.2 MS: [chuckle]
0:01:25.0 MS: I think maybe it's sprinkled with dusts...
0:01:25.6 BF: Oh it's sprinkled, sprinkle... Okay, gotcha gotcha.
0:01:28.7 TD: Maybe it's collagen dust on it. [chuckle]
0:01:29.0 BF: Okay. So collagen... Well, what is collagen? Collagen is the most abundant protein in the body, and while it comes in different forms, the most important form is the form that gives things structure, solidity. It's the most important protein in the part of the body that we call connective tissue. Connective tissue as the name implies connects things together. It's the glue that holds us together, and in fact, the word "collagen" comes from the word "glue", "cola" means "glue".
0:01:54.4 BF: And so collagen has a kind of a binding effect, it pulls everything together, and when the collagen deteriorates, we turn into a puddle on the floor. And not... I'm exaggerating a little bit, but basically we dissolve, and that's what we talked about, the scurvy. Scurvy is when you don't make connective tissue, your connective tissue deteriorates, collagen is the major protein in connective tissue, and you basically dissolve.
0:02:15.4 TD: Aging.
0:02:16.0 BF: Your body falls apart, and that is what aging is, it's the body falling apart. And all of the visible signs of aging, as well as the internal manifestations of aging are largely driven by collagen deterioration. So collagen is incredibly valuable stuff. And just as in the side, collagen is the part of the body that is the most magical part of the body, in the sense that it stores electrical information. Collagen is liquid crystal. What does that mean? It's a crystal, but it's liquid. A crystal is a substance that has an organized structure, and when we think of crystals, we think of the kind of crystals you find in the ground like the quartz crystals.
0:02:55.6 TD: Like diamonds.
0:02:56.3 BF: Like... And diamonds and crystals have a certain magical reputation because they have an ability to process electrical energy. Well, collagen is a liquid crystal. It has a liquid crystal effect, and we know that liquid crystals store energy. And collagen by virtue of its liquid crystal structure, conducts and stores energy so much so that if you rub your collagen, you can release information. What does that mean? You do massage here, right?
0:03:27.0 TD: Well, we don't do... Yeah, we don't do massage, but...
0:03:29.0 BF: But you do it, right?
0:03:29.1 TD: We have an association that... Yep, hot massage therapist here.
0:03:32.1 BF: Have you ever heard a massage therapist tell you, "You know, I was giving that person a massage and they started crying." Why?
0:03:36.8 TD: I think I've started crying, I actually have, yeah.
0:03:39.2 BF: What is that? Why does that happen? You're releasing information as your connective tissue is being manipulated. We store trauma in our connective tissue, we store information and via the collagen. Our collagen acts like an information processing system that conducts electrical energy and fiber optic information energy from head to toe. So much so that you can stick a pin in it and you can change the movement of electrical energy and change the information in your structure so that you can quit smoking or that you can not feel pain.
0:04:08.7 TD: So you're talking about acupuncture.
0:04:09.9 BF: That's what acupuncture is.
0:04:11.1 TD: Okay.
0:04:11.4 BF: Acupuncture is a manipulation of the electrical energy that is being stored and conducted in this information processing system that we call collagen and the connective tissue that make up the bulk of our body. Collagen's amazing, amazing stuff.
0:04:26.0 TD: I had no idea it's that amazing. It is magical.
0:04:29.0 BF: Yeah, yeah. A magical stuff. And on top of that, aging... The manifestations of aging, are largely driven by deterioration of collagen. So figuring out how you can build collagen is critical. Everything you see about an older person, visibly see about an older person that is different from a younger person, is a function of their collagen deteriorating. So building collagen is critical, and as goes the body, so goes the skin. If it's critical for the body, it's also gonna be critical for the skin. And wrinkles and fine lines and thinning of the skin and a reduced ability to trap water are all driven by collagen and connective tissue deterioration. I'm using those terms synonymously, by the way, collagen and connective tissue. Connective tissue is a little bit more complicated than collagen but for our intents here, we'll use those terms synonymously.
0:05:14.4 BF: Holding on to water is another one of the incredibly valuable roles that collagen plays. In fact, you probably heard, "Oh, the body is 60% water, 70% water", right? Well, how can that be? You'd be a puddle sloshing on the ground. How can you be 70% water? Well, turns out that that water is trapped in collagen and collagen-like substances. It's structured or trapped water, it's a completely different form of water. So not only does collagen have these electrical effects and these structural effects, it also also has an important water trapping effect.
0:05:45.0 TD: Okay, so I am hook line and sinker, all on the importance of collagen in our body. So now, how do we actually use and adjust or put collagen on our body to increase it?
0:05:58.1 BF: So now, I got you...
0:06:00.0 TD: Yeah.
0:06:00.6 BF: I've advocated for collagen.
0:06:00.8 TD: Right.
0:06:01.0 BF: You guys are now lovers of collagen, right?
0:06:02.9 TD: Yes.
0:06:03.6 BF: Okay, good. So then, yeah, how do we do it, how do we build it? Well, in order to build collagen you need two things, two components for building collagen. You need the raw materials, collagen is a tri-peptide, it's made up of three amino acids, it's made up of glycine, which is a phenomenally important amino acid. We could talk about that, just on a whole episode. And deficiencies are common, glycine deficiencies, it's important especially for detoxification, by the way. And it's a component of collagen. And so, taking your collagen just by virtue of the glycine component is gonna help you detoxify. And then, it's got a couple other amino acids, proline and hydroxyproline. It's made up of three amino acids. We call it the tri-peptide. And so, in order to build collagen, component number one is gonna be the raw materials, the building blocks. And that is the glycine and the proline, you can get those... Those are amino acids and you can get those from a lot of sources, but when you eat collagen, you're getting them. It's the best way to get them. You're getting glycine and proline, the building blocks. However, you also need the second component, and this is how the body builds itself up.
0:07:04.9 BF: The body builds itself up with raw materials, with building blocks. And then, if I could use this word again, 'cause I love it, especially in biology, magic. There are magical substances that turn that raw material into stuff. And it's these two compartments, you can think of them loosely as macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients. The macro-nutrients are the raw materials, the building blocks in terms of collagen, it's those amino acids, the three amino acids. And they're very important. But without the magic, nothing is gonna happen. And this is where people sometimes go awry or go astray when they should try to supplement with collagen, they don't get the magic. The magic is the copper and the magnesium, and most especially the vitamin C. And so, you have to take the micro-nutrients with the building blocks in order to get the benefits from the collagen.
0:07:55.9 BF: Now, that's for collagen building. However, if you're not interested in building collagen, just by eating collagen, you're gonna get that all important glycine, and you're gonna get that all important proline. And if you drink your collagen in bone broth, which I absolutely love, and everybody should be drinking bone broth, you're gonna get the co-factors, you're gonna get the high hyaluronic acid, you're gonna get the glucosamine, you're gonna get the cysteine. You're gonna get all of these wonderful co-factors that are in the bones. This is... When I say bone broth, I'm talking about real homemade. Where you actually steep the cartilage and the bones in the water. All those wonderful co-factors in addition to the collagen are going to come out in the liquid. And not only does it make the most ideal immune-boosting food, the most ideal structural system boosting food, but it's the most amazing skin food as well. And so to me, bone broth and taking collagen early with the co-factors, remember you gotta have those co-factors, is probably the most important thing you could do from a nutritional standpoint for anti-aging and for building the body.
0:09:00.5 MS: When collagen is in an ingredient applied topically, what is that?
0:09:03.7 BF: Nothing.
0:09:04.2 MS: Where is that coming from?
0:09:04.9 BF: Where is it coming from?
0:09:05.8 MS: Yeah.
0:09:06.1 BF: Collagen is only found in animals usually it's dried bovine. It's the most abundant protein on the planet, so there's plenty of collagen. There's no collagen shortage on the planet. And it's very cheap, and so most collagen in a product is gonna be bovine, is gonna come from cows. Collagen in the product is not gonna do much for your skin.
0:09:22.7 TD: Okay, that's what I'm talking about. I knew that there were something... There was a... Okay.
0:09:27.0 BF: No. Remember we talked about how the skin care business sometimes plays loose and fast with things, 'cause everybody loves collagen and everyone knows about collagen and they say, "Oh, well, let's put it in a product." It's not gonna do anything for your skin. However, because collagen traps water, it can have a softening effect on the skin, it can have a little bit of a moisturizing effect on skin, but it's not gonna help you build your own collagen.
0:09:44.3 TD: That's temporary.
0:09:45.2 BF: Yeah, it's totally only temporary. You're not gonna have any... It's a useless ingredient really. But vitamin C, which is the key ingredient for making collagen, that is incredibly valuable for the skin. And also to a certain extent, something called glucosamine, which you've probably heard of. One of the neat things about connective tissue is, connective tissue building is linked to wounding, and this is another one of these beautiful intelligent evolutionary systems, where you're wounded and then your body sees a wound, it makes connective tissue. So, we can use wounding strategically. And of course, estheticians all know about peels and laser and various therapies that leverage controlled wounding for the skin. One of the cool things about the body is that when we're wounded, that triggers building.
0:10:33.4 BF: And it's this cycle of breakdown and build up that the body does for its entire life, and estheticians know that they can leverage this process. Well, it turns out that wounding signals growth by virtue of molecules that are in the wounds. And so, when connective tissue is broken, like in a wound, the components of the connective tissue are read by the fibroblast and by signal sensing molecules in the bloodstream, and in the connective tissue, to turn on healing. So glucosamine is one of the components of connective tissue, and when loose glucosamine is sensed in the system, the body says, "Oh, there's a wound somewhere." It reads the loose glucosamine as a signal to grow more connective tissue, more collagen. And that's why people take glucosamine as supplements. Hyaluronic acid does the same thing, and this is why hyaluronic acid, which is a component of connective tissue, can stimulate the production of collagen. And so, if you want a handy dandy collagen building strategy, that's real easy...
0:11:35.9 TD: I do.
0:11:35.9 BF: You do?
0:11:36.4 TD: I really want one. Let's hear it.
0:11:36.9 BF: Should I tell you?
0:11:38.1 TD: Yes, I wanna hear it.
0:11:39.8 BF: Maybe we wait for the next episode.
0:11:41.2 TD: No.
0:11:42.7 BF: Take arthritis supplements.
0:11:44.7 TD: Oh, another bio hack.
0:11:46.1 BF: Arthritis supplements are wonderful for building connective tissue in the joints, because they are these little molecules that the body reads like glucosamine and hyaluronic acid, that the body reads as signals that the connective tissue have been torn or broken somewhere. Those same arthritis supplements that help your connective tissue and your joints will help your connective tissue in your skin. And bonus, they'll help your connective tissue in your bloodstream, or your blood vessels. Those are connective tissues, you'll build stronger blood vessels. They'll help the connective tissue in your fascia and the internal part of your body. So using arthritis supplements are not only the best anti-agent supplement, multiple complex... Nutritional formula, anti-aging supplement, but if an aesthetician is really smart, they'll get a arthritis supplement and they'll stick a label on it and say, Tracey's anti-aging supplement.
0:12:38.3 TD: Well, but I need to say that is not within scope of practice, so...
0:12:42.7 BF: No, you can. Anti-aging supplements are not scope of practice?
0:12:45.5 TD: Well, they're not covered by ASCP Insurance to take anything orally.
0:12:49.4 BF: Oh okay, okay, gotcha. Okay, I take that back. Gotcha But that's how... When you understand how everything is put together and you understand the nature of biochemistry and its relationship to how our body takes shape and how our beauty, how our skin takes shape and the manifestations on beauty or for beauty, you can start to work this way. It gives you such power as an aesthetician or as a therapist, it gives you so many different avenues of approach and avenues to control, to work with things like wrinkles and fine lines, or hyper-pigmentation or anti-aging, or if you really wanna go all out for working on the internal milieu of the body.
0:13:26.7 MS: Tell us about the different types of collagen.
0:13:28.6 BF: Okay, so there's different way... Well, that's kind of a broad question because it's kind of a interesting question because there's different types of collagen. There's actually 13 different types of collagen inside the body, most common ones are type I and type II collagen. Have you heard these terms type I and type II?
0:13:43.0 TD: No, not...
0:13:44.7 BF: The most common one in the skin is type I collagen, and then in the connective tissue in the body's type II, and there's various forms of collagen inside the body. But I think what you mean is collagen that you're ingesting, how are the different ways that you can ingest collagen, and the most common kind is hydrolyzed collagen, which is collagen that has been broken up a little bit in processing to make it easier for the body to process. Remember, collagen is a tri-peptide, three peptides, three amino acids I should say. It's got glycine, amazing amino acid, proline, and then a form of proline that has been activated by vitamin C. This is why vitamin C is so important, it activates this third amino acid and turns it into something called hydroxyproline. So those are the three amino acids. And when you eat collagen, and you could buy collagen everywhere these days, collagen powder, basically what you're eating is a form of collagen where those amino acids have been loosened up a little bit, and the peptides, the triple components have been loosened up a little bit to make them easier to absorb. And just wonderful benefits as I say, that's the raw materials for building your collagen.
0:14:45.1 BF: It's not gonna... You're not gonna turn it into collagen, let's be clear. You're not gonna turn those amino acids magically into collagen, but they're the raw materials. It's like a depot that your body can draw from when it needs the raw materials for building collagen, it's a great thing to do. Then there's something called collagen peptides, and collagen peptides are a further processed form of collagen, and then there is the least processed form of collagen which has been used for eons or hundreds of years, anyway, but maybe thousands of years called gelatin. And gelatin is a wonderful way to get collagen, although it is processed.
0:15:19.8 TD: Are you talking about Knox Gelatin?
0:15:21.7 BF: No, I'm talking about Jell-O.
0:15:23.5 TD: Yeah.
0:15:23.6 BF: Yeah, I'm not talking about jello, I'm talking about Knox gel...
0:15:26.6 TD: Yeah, like the Knox...
0:15:26.7 BF: Unflavored gelatin.
0:15:27.8 TD: Yeah, yes.
0:15:28.5 BF: The problem with Knox is... And with collagen, if you're not careful is you want it organic, and Knox is not organic. 'Cause you're eating a part of the animal that has a lot... Animals are fed all kinds of stuff, hormones and antibiotics, and there could be some by-products in the gelatin. Gelatin is made by basically boiling the protein aspect and drawing out the collagen, and it could be contaminated. So I like organic gelatin which is...
0:15:53.5 TD: Okay, good.
0:15:54.2 BF: You can find it on the internet. And not only that, but gelatin has a long history of being used for digestive problems also. So you can actually support digestive health by using gelatin for heartburn or for leaky gut syndrome or for various digestive ailments, gelatin has a long history of use for helping treat digestive problems. Also, I should tell you, the intestine is built up like any other part of the body, is built up by connective tissue and collagen, so building collagen can help protect against leaky gut. And so you can get some really nice digestive health benefits by using collagen supplements. And you guys are ripping on collagen and you're not gonna... You're not gonna take collagen.
0:16:28.2 TD: I know, I have no idea. And it also makes me think a little bit in French cooking, and I'm probably getting way off topic, but in French cooking, they make all those different types of entrees that use...
0:16:40.6 BF: Gelatin.
0:16:41.3 TD: Gelatin.
0:16:42.0 BF: Yes.
0:16:42.2 TD: And so, I just think about... Historically...
0:16:45.3 BF: Historically, it has been very prized and very valued for nails and for hair. Something really interesting, I think that's interesting about gelatin is the body, all the organs of the body are embedded in various... In connective tissue which is largely collagen, so it's like your heart, and your spleen, and your pancreas and your gal bladder, they're embedded in this material, this connective tissue material, almost like a jello mold, where you have fruit in a jello mold, right?
0:17:15.6 TD: Yeah.
0:17:15.8 BF: And in a way, they're the same thing, because jello is connective tissue. And so the fruit isn't connective tissue the way your organs are in your connective tissue, and when you have prolapses or when you have ruptures, or when you have hernias, basically your pineapples are dropping, basically... Basically, you know what I'm saying? It's like the fruits are popping out, and so by strengthening your connective tissue, your jello, you can keep all of your organs in place and protect yourself as you age from things like prolapses and ruptures and hernias and bulging discs and such. So eating collagen is not just important for the skin and not just important for the digestive system in the case of gelatin, but it's important for keeping you intact. And so, to me, building collagen, I know I've said this a lot, but it is the very essence of anti-aging. And if you could think of one strategy you wanna do to keep your heart strong, to keep your digestive system robust, to build your immune system, keep your musculoskeletal system strong and to build your skin, build your collagen. Yeah.
0:18:16.0 MS: Maybe this is a little bit of a stretch, but we all know that a lot of the issues we see on the skin are a result of issues with digestion. So somebody who is presenting with those skin conditions, if they go on a collagen supplement, could they potentially see some of those issues resolved?
0:18:29.7 BF: Potentially yes, absolutely, you got it. The biggest thing is the influx of toxicity, so you can't eat the way you're eating and then expect your digestive system to just respond to collagen, but it can certainly have... It can help. The most important thing, by the way, of the digestive system, which is very under-appreciated for keeping the digestive system, for folks of leaky gut or who have intestinal problems...
0:18:50.7 TD: And maybe talk a little bit just to give a little definition on leaky gut, just for those who don't know exactly what it is.
0:18:56.4 BF: Okay, got you. Leaky gut is colloquial, the technical term is intestinal permeability syndrome, and that is when you literally have leaks in your gut. The way the gut is a... We say the word gut all the time and we throw it around, but really, it's the intestine we're talking about... And so the intestine is a tube like a hose, it has a center and it has an outside coating and on the outside of that hose are blood vessels, and the way the digestive system is supposed to work when it's working correctly, is food will go down the hose, or the tube, and then after your hamburger, your French toast, whatever you ate is digested, the components, the amino acids and the B vitamins, and the fats, they are flipped over, this is really cool how this happens by the way, there's a cell that has two sides to it, I don't know if this is easy to understand on the podcast, but you have a cell here, the tube is here and the food will go into the cell and the cell will flip over and pass that nutrient into the bloodstream. It's the, really...
0:19:53.8 TD: It's like a little machine.
0:19:55.9 BF: Like a little machine.
0:19:56.7 TD: I love that.
0:19:56.9 BF: Like a little machine. So the cell flips over, dumps off the little, the B vitamin or whatever it is, and that's the way it's supposed to happen because you don't want stuff just going into the blood stream from the intestine, we eat all kinds of stuff, you don't want it going into the blood stream, you want a lot of it coming out. Unfortunately, as nutritional deficiencies accrue over the course of our lives, starting when we're born, or even sometimes in the womb, as we eat the wrong foods, especially fried fats, that's what's I was gonna say earlier, you get inflammation in these... In the cells that line the intestine, and there's inflammatory processes that kick in, inflammation's a defense mechanism, so there's defensive processes that kick-in that cause these cells to kind of pull apart from each other. The inflammation spreads and now you have openings instead of the food particles or the nutrients flipping over, now things can leak through because the cells have spread out, that's called a leaky gut, and by the way, you can have leaky brain too, the same thing can happen in the brain.
0:20:56.2 BF: The brain is protected, the brain tissue is also protected, like the blood stream is protected, by the blood-brain barrier, and the same things like gluten and lectins collectively, they're called or fried fats and processed fats, they can cause inflammatory processes in the intestine that can cause leaky intestine or leaky gut. You can have the same thing in the brain and leaky brain phenomena could be responsible for Parkinson's disease and brain fog and Alzheimer's dementia and various dementias, so the same kind of mechanism is in place. So the real answer to your question is, can collagen help you out? Collagen can strengthen the connected tissue for sure, and has some anti-inflammatory benefits, but as long as you're putting the toxins into the system, it's gonna be really difficult to end leaky gut and if you throw in the nutritional deficiencies that not only are endemic but made worse in a vicious cycle kind of way, because the more inflammation you have in the intestine, the less you're gonna be absorbing nutrients, the less nutrients you're gonna have, the more inflammation you're gonna have, the less nutrients you're gonna have, you get this vicious cycle.
0:21:54.5 TD: So basically, you're saying if you're eating fast food every day, don't even bother taking a collagen supplement?
0:22:02.3 BF: No. I'm not saying that.
0:22:03.3 TD: Okay.
0:22:03.8 BF: And that's a real... But that's a really interesting point, because a lot of times people will say, "Oh, I don't eat crappy, doesn't really matter, so I'm gonna smoke, I'm just gonna do... I'm not gonna pay attention". Well, the opposite is true, and that is the more fast food you're eating, the more you need to be taking care of your nutrition, the more you need to be using anti-inflammatory substances or raw materials like collagen and the micro-nutrients that help you build collagen. So the more you're abusing your body, the more required it is, the more necessary it is that you do things that help you build and help you repair, this nutritional supplementation in particular. One really important thing for building collagen and that's essential fatty acids, making sure that the essential fatty acids have a genetic...
0:22:46.7 BF: An ability to turn on genetics, they have an epigenetic property that can actually turn on the production of connective tissue and essential fatty acids deficiencies are very common. And another really important thing and an interesting thing about connective tissue and collagen is your blood vessels are strengthened by connective tissue and collagen, and when the blood vessels become weakened, little tiny nicks will form in the blood vessels and the body has a very interesting way of protecting itself from these little nicks. It has like a grout that it will produce to patch up those little... Those little nicks, and then there are minerals that will support the grout. I don't know if you know this, you may know this, but concrete is made up of grout or gooey substance plus minerals, right? You can actually see it, and it's the combination of grout and minerals or pebbles or rocks that gives cement... Is it cement or concrete, I forget the difference, but...
0:23:33.8 TD: I think it's the cement.
0:23:35.0 BF: Cement, it's what gives that material it's robust nature. Well, the body has its own version of cement, it will make its own cement, except it doesn't call it grout and pebbles, it calls it cholesterol and calcium. And cholesterol and calcium deposits are the end result of a protective response that the body is making to broken down or at least it partially the end result of a repair mechanism. And so if you really wanna lower your cholesterol, strengthen your blood vessels, or if you really... I shouldn't say lower your cholesterol, but reduce cholesterol plaques, strengthen your blood vessels. If you want to reduce atherosclerosis, make sure you have strong blood vessels and atherosclerosis is, if not the, it's one of the leading causes of death, so make sure that you're using things that help you build connective tissue, build collagen, and so all those things we talked about for building collagen for your bones and for your fascia and for your skin are extra important if you're dealing with atherosclerosis or plaques in the arteries.
0:24:38.3 MS: Would you say it's better to be taking your collagen as a supplement or drinking it like the bone broth?
0:24:42.7 BF: Drinking is always best, drinking is always best, and I don't... You're talking about pills or powder?
0:24:47.1 MS: Yeah.
0:24:47.9 BF: The pills... I don't use... Pills are easy... They're handy, they're convenient, but if you really wanna get some juicy nutrition, the powder, put it in water, or the best is bone broth, because you're getting all the co-factors with bone broth, and that's really... That's the best way to get your collagen and in your connective tissue.
0:25:04.3 TD: It's nature way, right?
0:25:05.7 BF: It's the nature way. Absolutely, it's the nature way and always mix veggies with your bone broth because the nutrients from the veggies will help the connective tissue work more effectively, especially vitamin C. Vitamin C is very important for connective tissue, and if you take vitamin C with your bone broth, even if you don't have veggies in your bone broth, take some vitamin C with your bone broth and they'll work together.
0:25:26.2 TD: Doesn't chicken typically have vitamin C or chicken broth have vitamin C in it, so that's a misnomer?
0:25:32.9 BF: There's no... There might be a little bit, but by the time you're cooking it...
0:25:35.3 TD: Gone?
0:25:35.6 BF: Yeah, it's gone. The best, like we said earlier, the best sources of vitamin C are gonna be to a certain extent, citrus fruits, but also papaya, cantaloupe and chilli peppers are also good sources and green leafy vegetables also have a little bit of vitamin C in there too.
0:25:50.1 TD: Well, that wraps today's show, and as always, if you're not an ASCP member, Associated Skin Care Professional member, join at ascpskincare.com/join. If you like this episode, subscribe today, so you will never miss a single episode. Details from what we discussed will be in today's show notes. If you can't get enough and who cannot, of Ben Fuchs, the Rogue Pharmacist, you can listen to a syndicated radio program, The Bright Side, and you can also check him out at pharmacistben.com.