Ep 309 – What the Deck? Superstar Ingredients

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0:01:40.3 Ella Cressman: Hello and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I'm Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician and Content contributor for Associated Skincare Professionals.

0:01:48.9 Maggie Staszcuk: I'm Maggie Staszcuk, licensed esthetician and ASCP's program director.

0:01:53.4 EC: Maggie, we have a shout out. Here it goes. Ida Chorny Are you listening friend? We're so glad that you're joining us, right?

0:02:03.2 MS: Totally.

0:02:03.9 EC: Yes. Love your comment on our post about We listen, We don't judge and we agree having you listen is just like having friends. Thank you so much. So here's the thing friends, the skincare world is getting a major glow up. A lot of different ingredients coming out, but also different ways of using them. And in that we're mixing innovation, sustainability and most importantly, one of the hottest topics is personalization. All of this into one fabulous routine. So as savvy beauty lovers obviously and estheticians, we know that the demand for smarter, greener and more custom solutions or brands is really increasing, especially with superstar ingredients. So let's talk today about a couple of them. What do you think Maggie?

0:02:56.3 MS: Yeah, let's dive in.

0:02:57.5 EC: All right, let's think about vegan collagen for cruelty of bounce, postbiotics to keep your skin's microbiome happy and Ecotin to fight off pesky pollution. It's like this new era of skincare that's not just about looking good, but feeling good. It's way different from when we started out. I feel like I have a book of ingredients, like an ingredient... You remember those ingredient dictionaries?

0:03:22.7 MS: Yeah.

0:03:24.3 EC: I might have one from when we first started out and even one from 10 years ago. And I feel like they're probably more like a brochure compared to the ingredients that we use now. Would you say?

0:03:34.3 MS: Oh, 100%. I still use my ingredient dictionary from way back when I was in aesthetic school. But to your point, if you look at ingredient dictionaries over time, they are so fat because there's constantly new ingredients coming out every day that we put on our skin. Creating change.

0:03:55.6 EC: Creating change. And I love this part. This is one of my favorite parts about our industry because there's some that are fantastic and then there's some that were like, really See previous podcasts on what a devil is wearing. So let's talk about a few today. Let's start with vegan collagen. It sounds like it could be an oxymoron, but what is vegan collagen? Traditionally, of course, collagen is derived from animal sources, so bovine or marine. That's where we're usually getting our collagen powders or our topical collagen for masks and such. And that consists of proteins that are said to improve skin elasticity, hydration, firmness. But vegan collagen is created synthetically, but sourced from plant based materials like yeast, bacteria or genetically modified plants, corn or soy. So not without controversy, but a different opportunity. Very similar, in fact mimetic to the molecular structure of animal collagen. What do you think about the difference between traditional collagen and vegan collagen?

0:05:07.7 MS: So this brings up a lot of the same debate that we had with the Devil Wears Tallow and your personal opinions about using an animal based ingredient on the skin. With that said, I think there's also a lot of debate about whether collagen itself can even permeate the surface of the skin to create change in the skin.

0:05:32.3 EC: I would agree. And I think this is a play. This could be a play on vulnerabilities. This is where like some of these things start to bother me. So let's talk first about the benefits of vegan collagen. Here's what the tout is. It's ethical and sustainable because it is aligned with not coming from animals or mammalian sources. Then more acceptable, it's cruelty free, it's eco conscious and so on. But as mentioned, it can come from GMO plants. The benefit for skin health is just like traditional collagen. It helps to improve skin firmness, reduce appearance of fine lines, boost hydration. But is this topical or is this internal? Remember, like, I guess what I'm thinking of is vegan protein powder versus obviously like whey protein powder, are they similar? This is collagen you're ingesting. But also they're so closely marketed with topical products that there's confusion.

0:06:33.2 MS: Yeah, something that's been synthesized in a lab can be created to create the change we're hoping for in the skin. It can be genetically modified to be smaller to permeate the skin tissue. But you hear GMO and then everybody's up in arms saying that this is such a horrible thing. But again, we're applying this topically. It's something that's in a bottle. It's not something that we're ingesting. It's a debate. Tomato, Tomato.

0:06:58.5 EC: Yeah. I guess that's where the limitation is, is because we're... When we're talking specifically about topical application, which is our scope of practice, the vegan collagen works more as a topical hydrator or film forming agent, not what is implied as like, oh, I'm gonna boost your elasticity or re-add the bounce back in. Right. That's what you're saying too?

0:07:20.7 MS: Yeah.

0:07:21.3 EC: Okay. Let's talk about postbiotics. Postbiotics versus prebiotics. Here's another inspiration. Food wise and no, I wasn't really hungry when I was researching this stuff, but I feel like our industry is so paralleled with diet trends and sometimes health trends. So prebiotics we've heard about for a long time. There was a resurgence of popularity of taking a prebiotic and affecting the gut microbiome which had a positive influence on your skin. And then we hear these postbiotics. So what are they? Postbiotics are the bioactive compounds produced when probiotics or live bacteria break down into nutrients. Think of enzymes, peptides, polysaccharides and vitamins. The difference is, unlike probiotics, postbiotics are not live organisms. So this makes them more stable and more suitable for topical formulations. What are your thoughts? Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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0:09:10.0 MS: Okay, here we go. Let's get back to the podcast. The whole biotic industry applied topically to the skin. I don't know how much I buy into this. Prebiotics, postbiotics. I understand that there is proven benefit to the skin, but when we're talking about a bacteria, if you will live or not live, what is this really doing for my skin? So we have mentioned enzymes, peptides, polysaccharides, all of these things are awesome. If this is the outcome of postbiotic, why are we not just using the end result?

0:09:47.0 EC: Right? I mean that's fair. So let's talk about what they're touting the benefits of postbiotics, that it strengthens the skin barrier, which is kind of along the line with like the whole thought process. So postbiotics help to maintain that lipid barrier, preventing water loss, protecting against environmental irritants and so on. Also touting maybe this is a different benefit, but the anti inflammatory properties, so calming redness, irritation and inflammation. This is why they're used for sensitive or especially acne prone. And that is all going towards this thought of balancing the microbiome. So the postbiotics support the microbiome that's already there, this perceived probably imbalance which is causing compromised skin or acneic skin and that that is essential for then preventing other things like eczema, acne, rosacea and so on. So understanding postbiotics, are you thinking you might want some on your Del Taco night?

0:10:54.8 MS: I think so, because it could be in the morning, a postbiotic.

0:10:57.9 S1: Yeah. Probably a prebiotic on the Del Taco night.

0:11:00.7 EC: Fair enough. So why postbiotics over probiotics? And you're right, they have prebiotics now.

0:11:10.1 MS: My prebiotic is going to feed my probiotic so that I don't have a massive acne breakout and helps all the postbiotics.

0:11:16.9 S1: So there is a whole system here. The thing is that postbiotics are more stable in skincare. This is the tout. They don't require that live bacteria storage condition that probiotics do and they're more predictable, less likely to cause adverse reactions. But you just brought up something that made me start to think with the pre, the pro and the post, are these just like a great idea gone marketing?

0:11:44.6 MS: I feel like yeah, that's why I can't buy into it. I mean first of all, if we're talking about probiotics, this is live bacteria in my cream. How's that possible? And what is that doing for my skin prebiotic? Feeding the good bacteria on the surface of my skin, I suppose. But my microbiome is good and healthy and I can use barrier creams and antioxidants to maintain that balance. Right. So why would I need a prebiotic? And then going back to my statement about postbiotics, I don't know because we said enzymes, peptides, polysaccharides, I just am going to use all of those ingredients anyway. So is that marketing that we're just calling them postbiotics?

0:12:30.8 EC: It could be. Because I think there's things like fermented radish root and I feel like that helps... That's a simpler way of explaining fermented radish root helps support the microbiome. But then you gotta break it down to something sciency. Fermented radish root supports the microbiome because it is a probiotic and like oh I know what that means because I have to take one or yogurt facials or any of these other things. So I think, I think there is some validity to the efficacy of the biotics. But I'm wondering if it's not a play on vulnerabilities. Could be. So proceed with caution.

0:13:04.7 MS: Yeah.

0:13:05.4 S1: Now let's talk about ecotin. Ecotin sounds rich to me. What do you think of when you hear the word ecotin?

0:13:13.1 MS: I don't know.

0:13:14.5 S1: Fair enough. Well here let's talk about what it is. It's interesting. It's a natural molecule derived from something called extremophiles. Weird, right?

0:13:25.5 MS: Yes.

0:13:25.9 S1: These are microorganisms that thrive in a harsh environment like salt flats and deserts. So they're an amino acid derived thing that protects microorganisms, DNA and proteins from extreme stress. Think about that translating to skin care and it's giving you this amazing protection for the skin in these extremely stressful situations. So we have life, we have climate changes for people who travel. We have currently where we are in this weird like pseudo spring area of transferring from winter to like cold and hot days and humidity levels change and so on. So ecotin is supposed to help through those changes. The benefits are an environmental defense like a shield for the skin, keeping away harmful UV radiation, pollution, blue light exposure, and preventing oxidative stress and premature aging. Like a super antioxidant. Also it's touted to help improve the skin's ability to hold moisture in similar to hyaluronic acid by binding water molecules and holding them in the skin so keeping it soft, supple. It's also anti inflammatory, helps to reduce redness, irritation, sensitivity. And it's my opinion that inflammation... Well, it's not my opinion, it's kind of known. But inflammation, especially if the skin stays in that inflammatory space, it can make things worse and long lasting.

0:15:01.2 S1: So the sooner you can reduce inflammation the less problems cascade we have and then of course resilience and repair. So Ecotin strengthens the skin barrier helping it to be not only strong and resilient but recover from any damage that it does have. This is great for long term skin health.

0:15:25.2 MS: It really does it all.

0:15:27.1 EC: It's. Yes it is. I mean this is the tout, right? So you'll see this in moisturizers, you'll see this in SPFs. So now I'm gonna ask again, what do you think of when I say Ecotin?

0:15:38.6 MS: Well now that I have been so well informed, I'm thinking that's the go to ingredient to boost my barrier to reduce the redness and protect me from all things.

0:15:50.3 EC: All things including life. Including life.

0:15:53.4 EC: Yeah.

0:15:53.7 S1: Ecotin is pretty cool. I do like that quite a bit. The origins of using this in formulations, it starts with extreme environment. So it's the reason that it's been used especially as a potent protector against urban stressors. And that's really a growing concern for skincare consumers. Lots of different things going on. So here's the takeaway. Vegan collagen, is it a game changer for ethical and sustainable skincare? Or a ploy? How about postbiotics? Is this a science backed solution for supporting the skin's microbiome or is it again marketing? And then Ecotin, it's a powerhouse for environmental defense and hydration. One of the new and upcoming ingredients to help consumers combat the effects of pollution, UV rays, and urban lifestyles. Now listeners, we really want to hear from you. What are your thoughts on vegan collagen, ecotin, postbiotics? Reach out via Instagram, Facebook, or send us an email getconnected@ascpskincare.com we want to know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty Talk. For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself, check out the show notes. Stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP Esty Talk.