Ep 311 – Balanced Skin, Balanced Life with Lashelle Ullie

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0:01:40.4 Maggie Staszcuk: Hello, and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. I'm your co-host Maggie Staszcuk, and ASCP's program director.

0:01:47.1 Ella Cressman: And I'm Ella Cressman, Licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator, ingredient junkie and content contributor for Associated Skincare Professionals.

0:01:56.4 MS: Ella, I am so excited for today's episode. We have a really awesome guest. A licensed professional esthetician who starts with the skin but through integrated care and a holistic approach is able to help clients not just have healthy beautiful skin but also a healthy mind and a healthy body. I'd like to welcome Lashelle Ullie to Esty Talk. Hi, Lashelle.

0:02:21.4 Lashelle Ullie: Hello ladies. Hello Maggie. Hello Ella. How are you?

0:02:24.7 EC: Hi, Lashelle. So excited to have you on.

0:02:26.6 LU: Thank you for having me.

0:02:28.0 MS: I'm going to just go through your bio here really quick Lashelle so that people really have a sense of who you are. You are a licensed skin health professional focused on holistic wellness for men. You assess skin health and create comprehensive care plans by connecting clients with various health practices. This integrated approach addresses root causes of skin issues, promoting preventative health and collaboration among health professionals to enhance men's overall well-being. We really are thrilled to have you on the podcast, and what you do is inspiring and sounds so awesome.

0:03:07.4 EC: You know I love skin health professional. I think that's a really cool way to put it. A great designation because that is really indicative of what we do. So thank you for phrasing it as such.

0:03:23.4 LU: Well, I respect what we do, and I think when you put the right verbiage to it and to really speak to actually what we do as estheticians, you know, licensed estheticians, this is what we're really doing. We're nurturing the health back to the skin. It's more than just lotions and potions. You know, we have to learn the structural anatomy of the skin, of cellular structure and ingredients and how it pairs together. We also become, in some ways, quasi health professionals when we are looking at certain things that we may notice that's beyond our scope, which I'll get into and why I captioned myself or coined myself as a skin health professional. Yeah. I've been doing this particular work as a skin health professional for the better part of eight years, but I've been in the beauty industry for over 20 years. I started out as a makeup artist, and the one thing I loved doing in addition to makeup was learning about the skincare brands and skincare lines, because I knew that real clean beauty, because that was my favorite look to do on people started with really good skin. How do I get to that point?

0:04:31.9 LU: And I realised, I said, wow, it's so much more to learn about the anatomy. It's almost like science based, you know? So I said, I'm more than just an esthetician. I'm a skin health professional because everything shows up on the skin. Everything. Lifestyle, health, environmental, stress. And I said, wow, we're doing so much work. And if you think about it, estheticians are constantly, constantly learning. You know, we are the ones who are constantly re-educating ourselves in this practice, like a doctor would, you know. And so skin health professional made a lot of sense to me.

0:05:12.3 MS: So you focus on men, Lashelle. Tell us why you were drawn to that niche market.

0:05:19.8 LU: Oh, gosh. It started out with my dad. It started out with the men I grew up with. They were really. You know, I come from a family that understood appearance first was the way to get into the room and stay into the room, but also, more importantly, to respect yourselves. Right. So it started there. I was always well presented. Me, my brother, were always well dressed, well presented kids. But as I got older and I got into the beauty industry and I was doing all this makeup and I was seeing that there was no men. I was used to men doing skincare. My father used to take care of their skin, and I was like, where are the guys here? And then I realised more and more that the marketing towards men was in this realm of self-care was about frivolity, right? It was not even thought of as a priority. My own personal journey in my 20s, I had, you know, I was a 20 year old and I did 20 year old things and, I'll just say I was in recovery, I'm in recovery. And it helped me sort of use self-care to sort of step into a better part of myself. I needed it.

0:06:25.6 LU: And I started to look at men, and especially over these past five years, how men were... They're in the renaissance. You know, think about the word toxic masculinity. And what that really was for me was a lot of men who were not connected with themselves emotionally. Self-care was not a priority. It was about, you know, go out, hunt, kill, take care of the family or neglect those emotions that make us human. And so, self-care was looked at as just not a necessity. And I wanted to give them what I had gotten myself in connecting with them. One. And I started to realise when I was doing this, I was, you know, before I started actually working for men, working with men, excuse me, I was like, you know, I can't give you what I don't have. And how you do one thing is how you do everything. So let me give you a little better example. I started... When I worked in the salon, Damone Roberts Salon in Beverly Hills, I would speak to women about trying to get men into the tier for eyebrows 'cause I was the eyebrow artist for them and I was trying to build that clientele up.

0:07:34.8 LU: I was like, "Men need to get their brows and they have the coolest brows. It changes the way they look". I would talk to a lot of the women and some of them kind of didn't help the toxic masculinity stereotype because they go, "Oh, no, no, he doesn't need that. Oh, he's a man". And I go, "I'll say this to you, I said, without getting too much up in your stuff, if he's not taking care of himself in this way, how is that showing up in your relationship? How can you say that these things are not important?"

0:08:02.6 MS: Yeah, drop the mic.

0:08:03.1 EC: Ooh.

[laughter]

0:08:06.1 LU: You know, and that's the truth. And so that was a piece of it. Men now looking for ways to connect with themselves, that feel authentic to themselves, 'cause there's so many types of different men. How can I be of service to that? Because I, it was given to me through recovery, through therapy, through the women in my life. I sought it out. Most men are not going to seek it out. I knew that with skin, with the beauty work that I do, because I knew what it did for women, beauty changes women's perspective on how to empower themselves. Not just uses a mask to make them feel gorgeous and glamorous. It's the internal stuff. How can we take what we do beyond makeup for men? And I knew skincare was the way to go.

0:08:51.2 MS: I am sure that there are estheticians listening to this right now who are saying I can't even get women into my treatment room. Building my clientele is so challenging for me, let alone a male based clientele. What do you say to them? I mean, clientele and building the clientele and putting yourself out there in marketing can be really challenging for some estheticians, especially those that are more introverted and they prefer, you know, that solo practitioner business model, if you will. What do you say?

0:09:25.8 LU: Well, I say, you know, it is challenging. Let me just affirm that, it's very challenging. You know, I've been in my business on my own as a solo practitioner for five years. I'm still working on getting more men into the fold. I've gotten headway in the past five years, but it takes time, I'll say that once, and it takes a lot of patience, I'll say that twice. But to your point, there are people who are a little bit more introverted, that can work in your favour because there are a lot of men who are introverted. Start with what you know, with who you know, around a community that you already know and appeal to that at first. 'Cause that's what I... That's how it started for me. It was, it wasn't like that that I went right up to men and they were like right away wanting to step into my chair. It was a process. But more importantly, I had one guy say, "Well, why do I need you?" And when I broke it down to what how it aligns to other parts of their health, vitality, performance. Because that's what men really think about like their performance, and they're like vitality.

0:10:29.8 LU: And when you start to understand what the emotionality of what make men click, you understand how to pair it your business. This work we do to that.

0:10:41.3 EC: There is parallels to just to all genders even in that too of what is going to bring them to you. You mentioned that there are those who are drawn to introverts, introverts will find each other. And we've kind of spoken about some of those things in particular. And I want to just also agree with you that the, this kind of goes back to that skin health professional. That skin health professional. Because you're taking a lot of the stigmas that are attached or that have been attached away. I remember early on in my career, my clients husbands would be coming in because their wife, "My wife made me an appointment", and the stigma that's kind of released over the last 20 years, it's been really nice. Especially like you're saying in the last 10 or five years is it's more, I don't know, socially acceptable to take care of your skin and have this care effort. And in building a clientele, gender aside, you have some of these challenges, like you have to get out there. We've talked about that too. About not just sitting on social media and calling them, but finding your niche, finding the right people for you and your servicing or you're manifesting a certain clientele or a certain niche that needs you. And I feel that this is just me assuming that fills your soul, and in filling your soul, it empowers you. And that empowerment is magnetic. Did I get it right?

0:12:12.9 LU: Yeah, I would. Here's the thing, like I said, I'm in a lot of... I've done recovery. So I work with... I get out there. I am a past social media. I'm in the Vince at work. I'm aligning with other businesses. I'm finding these guys. I like to do that anyway. I am a hunter. I go hunt for my food. Not a problem, you know, and I use all my resources. Okay. So I also, in being in recovery, over the years, I've get to sit in men's groups with a plethora of many different men. So I'm hearing the need, I'm hearing men trying to find better ways to be with themselves. I'm hearing this. And so I go, oh, well, at least I know I'm in the right sphere. Right. How do I get those men to come into my chair where I sometimes take what they're already doing and align it, like yoga and mental health and you know, fill in the blanks, the gym, fill in the blanks. We were all part of that. But you said something earlier into that last thing. I think it all goes down to marketing, how we speak to the conversation.

0:13:25.0 LU: Yes. What I said earlier can go across the lines, but in this industry, this is where men are the minority. And so, sometimes you have to speak specifically to them. Back I said about the emotional piece. What is the thing that drives them? And right now it is performance in its vitality. And I do get men who just wanna breathe and have a safe space and they come there just for the relaxation piece. And through that I get to sort of hopefully lead them down the path of other wellness practices. Because sometimes men don't have even a therapist. They go, "I just want to take care of myself". And the first thing I start to ask them is, "Well, how did you find me?" "Well, my wife saw you", and I think I said, "Oh well, she was tired of you, she's ready for you to... "

[laughter]

0:14:12.6 LU: And I get that. And then from there I go, "Are you seeing a doctor?" Just asking questions. "Do you do mental health? Do you do yoga? Do you do anything other than the gym?" And from that conversation, even from my room, I can help lead them to those other practitioners.

0:14:32.8 EC: Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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0:15:20.4 EC: Okay, here we go. Let's get back to the podcast.

0:15:23.3 MS: I know that you're really involved in integrative aesthetics, so I wanted to understand what your meaning of integrative aesthetics is. And does that tie back to this? I mean you're like the greeter, the most amazing person that they're going to see before you enter them into these other aspects of overall self-care, which is so important. So tell me about integrative esthetics.

0:15:47.6 LU: So integrative aesthetics, what I mean is, I understand certain other modalities like acupressure hold and aromatherapy, things that most estheticians already know. I take into account... I am a licensed CMA, so I kind of like take into account like I don't distribute medicines but medications and how those things work. I do work in the oncology sector and so I've had to learn a lot about compromised skin and health and so I would bring in other Holistic practices to the best of my ability and within my scope of practice to incorporate that in the room. Nothing new to estheticians for some of us. Right. But what I also get to do is, the thing I really love is, do you guys know the model for Kaiser Permanente Hospital? Kaiser Permanente, to me was the real reason why I wanted to do integrative health. Because they have all their practitioners, nurse, neurologists, your primary, everything that you need in their one building. And basically, it's a cohesive plan that they're using for said client. I said, well, I can do that as with my client. I want to know what medications and why the medications that the dermatologist, how is it working towards their skin?

0:17:02.6 LU: I'm talking to allergists, I'm talking to mental health therapists. These are all client related. I kind of built my own little network so that when a client comes in, say, I had a couple of teens for really cystic acne, I had to kind of do, "Well, I need to send you to this allergist to do a food panel test. This is the dermatologist I'm using. Go see her". Because this particular thing is out of the scope of my practice, you know, and so what I'm doing is bringing in other practitioners, creating this sort of ecosystem and community for myself so that can better work with my client in the chair. Because there's only so much I can do. So when I say integrative, I'm using that Kaiser Permanente model and to get that help that I need to get a really great skincare plan for my client.

0:17:51.8 EC: Maggie, he made Lashelle Permanente.

[laughter]

0:17:54.8 EC: Yeah.

0:17:55.4 LU: That's the thing that I like to work towards. But, you know, one hill at a time, Ella.

[laughter]

0:18:01.5 MS: I love that what you're saying, Lashelle. And I think so many estheticians feel confined by this "box", and it's outside their scope and there's nothing they can do. And they're simply just going to wax the brows and do the facial and, you know, say goodbye to the client. But this model you've created is amazing. And Ella and I have talked about it before on this podcast that create your network and you have a lot of options. And this is how you build your business and you build your clientele. And even though you know your client may have cystic acne, the door is not shut for you. Reach out to your network and find that dermatologist or the allergist, or maybe there is an esthetician or a medical director who can work with you so that you can continue to treat your clients.

0:18:58.6 EC: Long term.

0:19:00.4 MS: Yeah.

0:19:00.5 LU: It builds continuity, it builds retention for you. I personally think it's just a lot of fun. I am so interested in people. I'm so interested in the skin. And what we really get to do is impart some sort of change. That's what I really want to do. And we get to do it in the most visceral way with our hands on. Do you realise that's what I wanted to say, Ella? Do you realise that we have become essential over the past five years? Do you remember when we became essential? We became essential when COVID first happened and everyone was looking for a way to self-care. Estheticians blew up. People were looking for how do I take care of myself? And they went right to us. We were always this beautiful little jewel sitting on the box, on the shelf and they were like, "Let me pull that jewel out. I think it's going to work now". And that's when the men started to come too, because they were looking for it too. Already, the men stuff was already in my head years before that. But I took that idea and I go, "Wow. Wellness and wellbeing is really starting to take full front".

0:20:05.3 LU: Because let's just talk off subject. Politically, everything is changing. Things are becoming more expensive and unattainable in health insurance. We can become sort of these pseudo clinics of the day if we use our practices in the right way. And that's how I started to go down this path.

0:20:23.7 EC: Our practices, because we are skin health professionals. And what you're doing with Lashelle Permanente is continuing to learn as in line with the medical practice and so on. And you said that in the very beginning that we're constantly learning because things are constantly changing. And that's one of my absolute favorite parts about this industry, is there's more. There's a lot more. So we know that you're on the advisory board for LearnSkin, which I ironically was just talking about this morning with someone. So let's talk about continuing education, and why do you feel it's so important?

0:21:05.5 LU: Well, you said it yourself, our industry is always changing. The skin in and of itself, due to just environmental changes, is always changing. I think it's important for us to know how we can better serve our clients in our community. And to my point of where we're going as estheticians, I think we are kind of lightly going into a more holistic medical field that's taken the forefront. It's better to understand how to sort of get on the track. LearnSkin has been... It's so funny because I already had the idea in my head and I started down that path with men, and then I found LearnSkin, who was already doing that in their ecosystem. You know, they basically offer classes for estheticians to join on and through the... And once you're on that platform, you're learning from Chinese medicine practitioners, acupress, you fill in the blanks, and then you're also learning from dermatologists. I'm on their webinars every other week when they have one from dermatologists and these other doctors and practitioners.

0:22:10.6 LU: So for me, I think if you really want to survive in this industry, you have to understand how to better serve the community and what they need. And I think people are looking for other ways to intrinsically be healthier. And so we have to stay on top of the new thing that's coming in. Of course, technology is changing always. We have all these different cool machines happening. How do we get to use those machines? How is it going to work for our set clientele? So I think that's why it's important. You want to know what's going on. You wanna know who is. You also wanna also know what's going on in the state board. Because we've become essential. Right. We need to. And every, every state is different. I know California, our hands are basically tied. So how can you maximize and expand your practice within your scope, you know, within your parameters? So you have to understand that, so that you could understand how to use that machine, what ingredients to use. And ingredients are always changing too. And so I think learning is part of the job. It really is part of the job.

0:23:18.3 MS: Like the skin health professionals we are. Lashelle, I want to thank you personally for being so vulnerable and congratulations on your continued efforts in recovery. I think that was amazing to share with us, and I appreciate that.

0:23:31.9 LU: I couldn't have done this... Actually, if I can say, that's keeping me in my business. My own work that I get to do on myself, and I get to transport that in the treatment room, in those conversations, in those consultations, even in how I inspire them to come back into the chair. To answer your earlier question, how am I getting that? You know, I'm not doing something... I'm not telling my clients something. I'm not doing it myself. I'm seeing other practitioners. My gosh, I just applied for therapy, you know, to see a therapist the other day. Not that I'm crazy. I'm crazy, but in a good way.

[laughter]

0:24:15.3 MS: I am. I'm not going to have that admission. I am.

[laughter]

0:24:18.6 LU: I am. You know, and sometimes I need a little help, but I'm learning to... I want to inspire other people how to learn, but I am not going to do something that I'm not doing myself. And so, yeah, it's been huge for me and huge and part of my success just as a personal triumph. And I get to share that with my clients through so many different ways in the treatment realm.

0:24:40.6 EC: You know what they call that? Eating your own cooking. You have to eat your own cooking.

0:24:45.3 LU: Oh. Eat your own cooking. Oh, Ella, I like that.

0:24:48.4 EC: You can have it, Lashelle.

0:24:49.7 LU: I'll take it.

[laughter]

0:24:52.8 MS: Okay. Well, Lashelle, we want to thank you so much for joining us. This has been really an awesome conversation. We hope to have you back on the podcast again.

0:25:00.1 LU: I would love to come back. I have so much I got to say. I mean, I just tipped the iceberg here, but thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

0:25:08.4 MS: Now, listeners, we want to hear from you. Share with us on social media through Instagram, Facebook, or send us an email at getconnected@ascpskincare.com. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP Esty talk. For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Lashelle Ullie, Ella, or myself, or to learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes.