Ep 10 - How Big Skin Care Franchisers Are Ensuring Safety with Lisa Rossmann

Lisa Rossmann gets candid about what it looks like to start opening locations around the country. What are the big franchisers doing to entice clients and ensure their safety? Are clients stacking the books or barely trickling in? If you are trying to decide if the time is right for you and what precautions you may want to consider, then this podcast is a must-listen.

Author Bio: 

Lisa Rossmann currently serves as the Assistant Vice President of Brand Experience at Hand & Stone Franchise Corporation, which employs nearly 2,700 estheticians across 460 locations in the US and Canada. Lisa has been a licensed esthetician since 2010, completing her course work at the Aveda Institute in New York City. Lisa has worked for Hand & Stone since 2012, starting in general spa operations support when the chain had just shy of 60 locations. She has since turned her focus to expanding the skin care program, and now oversees the growth of the massage segment as well. Lisa is truly fulfilled by Hand & Stone’s mission to provide high-quality and affordable massage and facial services to all as part of their regular lifestyle, not just as a treat to themselves!

00:00 Tracy Donley: You are listening to ASCP Esty Talk where we share insider tips, industry resources and education for aestheticians at every stage of the journey. Let's talk because ASCP knows it's all about you. Hi there, and welcome to ASCP Esty Talk. Back To Business. Let your setback be your comeback. And I am your host, Tracy Donley, and I am so excited. I am here today with Lisa Rossmann, who is the Assistant Vice President of Brand Experience at Hand and Stone. How are you, Miss Lisa? 

00:38 Lisa Rossman: I am doing wonderful. Thanks for having me, Tracy.

00:41 TD: Great. Well, I just wanted to first start out with some easy questions for you today. I was curious what is the most interesting thing that you've learned about yourself during these stay-at-home orders? 

00:56 LR: Yeah. I mean, I would definitely consider myself to be an extrovert personality type. And I thought that being sort of stuck at home for longer than a week to two weeks would give me massive cabin fever, but I've actually been home now for almost two months with the exception of grocery store trips, and I'm like happy as a clam at home. So I'm completely shocked to find that out about myself.

01:24 TD: I am shocked, too. I think of myself as an extrovert, too. And I'm going crazy here.


01:28 TD: Well, I know it's gonna be interesting to see how everything looks right on the other side of all this, which I know we will get there at some point here. But how many of us will wanna go back and work in the office? How many of us like working at home? So it'll be interesting.

01:48 LR: Absolutely. Yeah for sure.

01:49 TD: Well, let's get into some of the more juicy questions here. What do you think are the biggest issues facing franchises right now? 

02:00 LR: Yeah. I mean, there's obviously a lot at hand. You have to look at it almost as franchising in general, which we followed really closely as members of the IFA, the International Franchise Association, but obviously in the context of this discussion, we're talking about spa industries, spa concepts and franchises. And I can tell you that, not only personally, but the rest of my team as the franchisor of Hand And Stone, we are really looking to provide support in three main areas that we see as the biggest issues.

02:39 LR: And the first really is, helping and guiding our franchisees with preserving their cash flow, so that they can stay afloat during this time, and of course be ready to open with obvious changes to their budget when they do re-open there are all new additional expenses that they now have to consider in terms of purchasing the proper PPE equipment, etc. So we're trying to help them navigate through that and then of course all of the different decisions they need to make with applying for these different loan programs that have become available like the PPP program. So that, preserving that cash flow, I think right now is probably numero uno.

03:22 LR: And then second, we think that staying connected with the employee base, while they're either laid off or furloughed, keeping them engaged in any way you can, but obviously not crossing that line by asking them to do things to stay engaged while they're collecting unemployment. So that's an issue. And then of course, looking ahead to the time that we re-open, and preparing for that, which I can tell you we have been doing since late March. We didn't know how long this would go on or how long our businesses would be shut down, but we knew how important it was to get ahead of the curve in preparing all the new safety measures, getting equipment ordered, writing new protocols. And then within the industry, we've been fortunate to collaborate with other industry partners. We've been working closely even with Massage Heights and Elements to make sure that we're all aligned with how our franchises need to look when we do re-open. So it's a lot. [chuckle]

04:22 TD: Wow, I think that's amazing that you've been partnering and talking to other companies like Massage Heights to make sure that you guys are on the same page. I love that. That's phenomenal. Do you ever see having to increase the pricing for your services to offset some of these costs? 

04:42 LR: That's a very good question and it did come up the other day on one of our internal committee phone calls. A lot of our owners have already outlined their budget for the next couple of years, assuming that this PPE equipment would be necessary to continue on and it was discussed. It's not something that we're not going to open the doors and increase pricing, but it could be a consideration in about a year from now if these requirements are still in place. That's another step you need to think about. Is this something that's first 90 days? Is this something that's until the vaccine is widely available? You don't know. If you do need to budget for these extra expenses for two years or if it's just, let's get open, let's set aside those funds for now and then let's re-evaluate in, whatever it is, whether it's October or early 2021 we're just not sure yet, but it could be a possibility, Tracy.

05:41 TD: Well, that's good to know. I love just to get your insight on that and just hearing, I think, too, that you're not going to increase prices right away. Hearing that from a big company like yours, I think that's a great thing for consumers out there. So that's awesome. You've mentioned a little bit, too, which I'm excited to hear as well, about making sure that the franchisors are still communicating with staff. Tell me a little bit more about what that kind of looks like? 

06:11 LR: Absolutely. So it's kind of a couple of pieces, right? So during this entire shut-down phase, we've been really careful to tow the line, because we have a lot of service providers who, even though they're unemployed or furloughed, a lot of these folks are still very engaged and wanna take advantage of this down time to do additional training. So what we've done is we're working with our vendor partners like Dermalogica, and they have totally beefed up all of the training offerings all virtually over the last two months, so that for anyone who wants to, on their own time, participate in additional education components, so maybe they can work towards becoming a Dermalogica expert, and utilizing this time to the maximum they have the ability to do that. But every time we announce any of these offered trainings, we're very, very careful in the communications, to say, "This is completely optional training, this is at your own discretion, this is not even being recommended, we are just putting this out there as available." Because you cannot ask these employees to participate in things while they're collecting unemployment. It's a conflict. So we've done that. We've also run different contests every week or bi-weekly, we utilize a gaming platform called 1huddle. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's...

07:41 TD: No, that sounds so cool, what is it called.

07:44 LR: Oh, my gosh. So the name of the company is 1huddle. They work with actually a lot of major professional sports organizations like the Philadelphia Eagles... Actually, the 76ers, not the Eagles. But they come up... You basically send them content and then they come up with games specific to your organization. So we have aesthetician games, we have Dermalogica games, and they can play these games for points and we run these contests so we send out Visa gift cards to people who win these contests by earning the highest number of points. And that has been amazing.

08:18 TD: I love that. That sounds awesome, I wanna play. [chuckle]

08:21 LR: Yes, it's really cool. It's an app people... Once the spas opt into it, on their own, it's a pretty nominal subscription fee for your entire staff to play, and it's unlimited play, and you could play right on your phone. And we can pull these sort of admin reports on our end and post leader boards, and it gets people pumped up. So we've been trying to do things like that. And then another initiative we've done is we've created something called the "Share your why" challenge, and every week we post a different topic and we ask the massage therapists and the aestheticians to go on to our internal Facebook groups and post a really short video of themselves explaining whether it's why they became a massage therapist or what their favorite services at Hand And Stone, or...

09:08 TD: That's great validation, I mean just for people to reflect on that right now. I love that, too.

09:14 LR: Yeah. Yeah. So all kinds of things like that, to keep them connected. So those are just a couple of different examples of ways that during the downtime we've tried to just stay in touch and let them know that we're here and that there's a lot still available, if they'd like to participate but no pressure.

09:29 TD: Yeah, I think that sounds great. And honestly, Dermalogica has some of the best education so we partner with them as well. I think that's phenomenal, that you're offering that in downtime for your aestheticians, that's great. Tell me a little bit, just still talking, staying on the topic of staff and employees, how have you been handling any kind of stress or anxiety that you might be hearing from employees? 

09:57 LR: Absolutely, and this is something, this is a very sensitive topic, right? 

10:02 TD: Yeah.

10:04 LR: So there's just such a wide spectrum of emotions that we are hearing from all service providers.

10:11 TD: I know, we are too. It's so hard.

10:14 LR: Yeah, you know, the theme I'm starting to see emerge is that I'm seeing it actually starting to regionalize a little bit. And what I mean by that is, we've got aestheticians down in the Orlando, Florida, market, who are chomping at the bit to get back to work, they're ready. And whether that's because the area is less hit than maybe other areas, I also know that unemployment claims in Florida are either a large percentage are getting denied or they just haven't gotten it yet.

10:45 TD: Yeah.

10:46 LR: So they wanna get back to work versus somewhere in New Jersey, where they're super hard hit, they're nervous, and they don't feel comfortable yet. So it's, you're just trying to kind of manage everybody and it's tough.

11:09 TD: Yeah, I know we're kind of hearing it from all over the board and it's hard 'cause it's polarizing. The conversation is. There's people who are like, "That's it, open up the State, let's do this. I need to put food on the table, I wanna work now. I wanna see my clients, I want to do this." And then there's definitely others who maybe financially aren't in a space that they have to jump into it and they're doing more of the watch and see kind of thing. So it's challenging. So the communications, have you guys created any resources to help them with just the stress of all of it, or is there anything specific? 

11:53 LR: Absolutely, absolutely. And we also realize that as locations are starting to touch base with their service providers to consider opening back up, they're really engaging everybody individually first.

12:09 TD: Oh that's good.

12:09 LR: Just to gauge comfort levels. Yeah, so there's no mass communication to the whole staff of, "Hey, we're gonna get back open. Who's interested?" It's really, we understand that there's people who are, what we call sort of the comfortable and eager, all the way down to the sort of bold and resistant, and we don't wanna pressure anyone to come back too soon. But what we've done internally is we've created these training programs that... Well first what we did was we created a whole new system of safety training, which I'll get into in a minute, but even on top of that, we wanted to have a company-wide discussion to really share what we've been up to, and establishing these new procedures. So last week, we actually had a chain-wide webinar for all of our service providers so that they could hear, "here's who we consulted with to design these new standards." We pulled from a list of frequently asked questions that we've been getting in and we addressed each one of them. I can tell you that on a one-hour webinar, we had 126 questions come through, new questions.

13:22 TD: Wow. [chuckle]

13:24 LR: Yeah, so everyone is coming from their own place, and I get it, I really do. There's so much to consider, when you're thinking about coming back in.

13:34 TD: I love that. I'm glad that you're really looking at the whole thing from a holistic view, so that's just great news, I love that. How are you advising franchise owners to prepare their physical space. And maybe that's gonna kinda get into what you were speaking about prior to this.

13:55 LR: Yeah.

13:55 TD: The guidelines that you have created.

13:58 LR: We have done so so much, in terms of the physical space. So just a few examples of the changes. There is so much new signage and communicating, communicating, communicating, to the clients that their safety is of utmost importance. So, a couple of examples; when someone books an appointment, they are sent a digital intake form that they can complete if it's a first-time client, so that they don't have to fill out any paperwork upon arrival. And 24 hours before the appointment, they'll be emailed what's called a client pre-screen form, which is...

14:35 TD: Okay.

14:35 LR: Yeah, they basically acknowledged that they've not had Covid, or have been around anyone with Covid symptoms in the last 30 days, they haven't had a fever. They haven't been... Just a bunch of... And had a temperature over 100.4, and so they they sign off on that, then coming into the spa, we now have floor decals in the lobby on the floor. The "stand here" ones that you may have seen, if you ventured out to the stores.

15:00 TD: Yeah.

15:00 LR: Recently, right? We are no longer for the time being, accepting walk-in appointments. So that you do have to call and make an appointment to come in. And then of course just signage in terms of which rooms have been cleaned, labeling things in a much more clear fashion, in terms of linens, really just soup to nuts, making sure that we communicate everything that we are doing to protect them. So, there's just, like I said, just an abundance of items that we put in place for the customers.

15:29 TD: Yeah, so it sounds like a lot of signage. And that makes sense because you want them to move about the spa or the space in a way that is safe for everybody. With that being said, are you planning to make sure that there's more time in between each client then to sanitize, disinfect, and clean? 

15:52 LR: Yes, that's a great question. So, believe it or not. So all of our facials are 50 minutes, hands-on, we've actually always booked them as 75-minute blocks just to allow for proper time for console and intake, retailing, sanitation of tools, etc. For the facials, we're fine. There's actually no time change really needed because we feel confident that it's still that 50 minutes hands-on, 75 minutes, should be ample time. Massage services, so, we've strongly recommended our owners move those from 60-minute blocks. The appointments are 50 minutes hands-on as well, to transition them up to either... We give them options, so they can either extend this appointment block length to 75 minutes or what they can do and what a lot of spas have opted to do since they have limited staff back anyway, is one massage therapist is actually assigned two rooms.

16:49 TD: I think that is such a great idea. That is such a great idea.

16:53 LR: They're flipping back and forth so that we can still accommodate. And even to add onto that concept, Tracy, what we've done is we've created, for all the people who decided they wanna come back and work 'cause we've opened some spas already in Georgia and in Utah, and what we've done is, of the staff that returns, the owner has created, four teams, and they all work on the same shift together like they've been given a color assignment, so the blue team will work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, thursday, 9 to 3. And so that kind of limits them working with other staff members, and hopefully limits the possibility of cross... Somebody infecting somebody else, If somebody got Covid.

17:42 TD: Yeah, so it helps with tracing. I think that's really smart, it's taking a very methodical approach to your scheduling, that's great.

17:51 LR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're taking to it well.

17:54 TD: That's great. Have you created pre-made communications for the franchise owners, to use? For instance, you were mentioning the 24 hours before the appointment, is there any kind of post-appointment communications? What does that look like or are you leaving that up to the owners as well? 

18:13 LR: We don't have post-appointment communications, it's really more, where, as we look to get back open, we are not reaching out to clients until the day before the service providers are ready to provide services, so they're making outbound calls to anybody who may have left messages the last couple of months, or who just inquired that they're ready to come in. And there's a lot of outbound communication, but we don't wanna make that communication too soon. We're allowing schedules to be kind of fit, everybody has to take the required training, once they get open. And then communication to the consumer, a lot of it, as we always have, is through our e-blast platform. And we've designed an abundance of templates that have allowed our franchisees to stay in touch this whole time. So we've had a massage Monday, facial Friday, and Wellness Wednesday, a different theme every single week, we've been able to feature videos starring our own aestheticians, doing little at-home facials on themselves.

19:20 TD: That's great. Oh I love that. Making it really personal.

19:23 LR: Yeah, we do, we do. And also our vendors have all been wonderful, and offering temporary affiliate programs. So whether that's dropship, if each spa has their own unique coupon code. So they can do credit.

19:37 TD: You are taking my questions right away.


19:41 TD: That was like... You've gotta be doing some retailing for all of your clients as when they're not able to come in and see practitioners.

19:49 LR: Yeah, we are. So, it's funny, we've never had e-commerce at Hand & Stone. We've always been brick-and-mortar, purchase only, because the aesthetician, it's... In spa world, it's a relationship, right? And you listen...

20:05 TD: Very much, yes, yeah.

20:06 LR: And we really never wanted to veer off that path in the past, because we wanted to allow that aesthetician to make that sale his or herself. Obviously, in this unique situation, we recognize that we have an abundance of customers using our products. And maybe they ran out of them, [chuckle] they wanna restock.

20:24 TD: Yeah, and we want them to have good home care, right? 

20:27 LR: Yes.

20:27 TD: You want them to be taking care of their skin while they're at they're at their... Under lockdown and their stay-at-home orders.

20:34 LR: Yeah, absolutely. And so it's interesting because all of our vendors were really quick to put together programs to offer our owners the opportunity to get credit for these sales at their store level. However, I have to tell you, it's been limited participation, because I think the owners, they really wanna protect their staff and they don't want to shift their clients to that e-commerce channel, even for one sale, for fear that they might lose them forever, even though we've given them the reassurance that, "Look, we're giving them your coupon code, it gives them a discount, but the discount's only alive until your store opens back up, then pricing will always be best at your store." So that's been a really interesting experiment. I thought the affiliate programs would grab a hold more than they had, but they're available. We've got some participation, decent sales from it, and we'll see once we open if it's something we may wanna consider keeping, but probably we'll go back to the aesthetician's...

21:35 TD: The personal recommendations.

21:36 LR: Absolutely.

21:36 TD: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. The other thing I was wondering, since you mentioned that a few of the locations have opened up, what does that look like? Have you gotten any feedback? Does it seem like people are flooding in and saying, "I've missed you so much I gotta get in here. I need a massage," or "I need facial," or has it been kind of a trickle? What's the vibe out there? 

21:58 LR: I was stunned. [chuckle] So we opened in... We have a spa out in the Salt Lake City market, in Midvale, Utah. They opened on Saturday, they booked 59 appointments on Saturday.

22:14 TD: Oh, my goodness. Wow.

22:16 LR: They were not expecting it at all. They said everything ran as smooth as silk in terms of transitions, PPE, clients following guidelines, everybody felt safe, incredible. The demand was insane, and we got similar feedback the other day from one of our Denver market spas who opened. No problem whatsoever, huge client demand, it's pretty incredible. And we've also been tracking for the locations that have opened, we track all this stuff really closely. So if the spa has 18 service providers, and all were asked to return, which percentage... How many returned? How many returned by departments? And what percentage of the staff returned by department? And you might be surprised to hear this, but we found in the eight locations that have opened, that the aestheticians were the highest percentage of return rate.

23:11 TD: Actually I'm not surprised, to tell you the truth, just because I oversee the three Cosmo associations, hair stylist, manicurist. And I can just tell you that aestheticians are just beside themselves, missing their clients so much, and they, I think, are a little less fearful. [chuckle]

23:33 LR: Yeah, it's really encouraging. We tracked, I think, it was 29 total aestheticians, that were asked to return. Out of 29, 25 came back.

23:42 TD: That's great.

23:43 LR: Eighty percent of them. Yeah. And just seeing that. And we've known that our customers, they love the brand that they fell in love with pre-Covid, and they wanna see that brand, they wanna see that plus the enhanced measures when they come back, and we've seen them hanging on, because we are a membership business and these members have... They've remained members.

24:11 TD: Hey guys, stop. Let's take a quick break.


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25:03 TD: Let's get back to the conversation.

25:06 TD: That's my next question, is I wonder, because you guys do take a more corporate approach to I'm sure, cleanliness, disinfecting, all those... The protocols that you've so carefully outlined, I'm curious, how many new members have you seen? 

25:25 LR: [chuckle] We actually sold 18 memberships over the weekend in those locations. The fact that a brand new person would wanna come in during this time is incredible. So that's just been astounding. And we'll continue to monitor that. When it comes down to it, each of these stores are owned and operated by a small business owner. And we've seen some of the comments come through from our customers who have touched based with their local spa and maybe considered canceling, or were having a conversation about freezing their membership or whatever it was during this time. One story really stuck out at me and it was a woman, she reached out and she had lost a family member in the last two years, and she said, "When I lost this family member, one thing that I did for myself just to take care of my mental well-being was to come in and get a massage every month and that helped me through this really tough time. And now I see that you're going through a tough time, and I wanna give you my support when now you need it."

26:29 TD: Goodness. What a beautiful story.

26:32 LR: Yeah. And so our members, one of the great things about our program is anything that they pay for, they never lose it. So that service that they may have paid for, they can, when they come in next month, they can use that for a double service, like a massage and a facial, or they can take their message and amp it up to make it a Himalayan massage with a CBD enhancement, or take their facial and get a dermal infusion with that extra service. And then some locations are opting to participate in even more enhanced programs, like different gift card promotions, or buy one get one, or things like that. So we're really trying to thank those people that have stuck with us during this.

27:12 TD: I love that. So now, maybe some more personal questions. In your opinion, when do you think that states or counties should be opening up places of business like salons and spas? 

27:28 LR: Yeah. Look, I'm trying to stay in tune to anything that comes out every day, which as you probably see, it's like... You're trying to keep up, this state said this at 10 o'clock this morning but then at two o'clock they changed it to that. And so...


27:43 TD: I know.

27:44 LR: It's kind of ridiculous to try and keep up with, but I guess my personal philosophy, and this is a really divisive topic especially even in my own family, we all disagree. So I foresee see this as being something that could be a very dividing topic for sometime, but I truly believe that you just have to look at it regionally, and it has to make sense. And that could drill all the way down to even the county level.

28:13 TD: I think it actually really does. I think more and more doctors that I've been hearing from are saying that that's how business owners should be looking and reviewing what's happening in their county. Yeah. On a personal note, you've been a licensed aesthetician, correct? 

28:29 LR: I am. Yes, I have been.

28:31 TD: Yeah, and so what advice would you give to our aestheticians, who may have one or two employees? So what would that look like as far as onboarding them with the changes that they have decided to put in place for their little spa or suite? 

28:50 LR: Well, I have to say that the associations like ASCP, and the aesthetics Council and Dermalogica, have provided so much guidance for the small business owner to follow, in terms of, here's... It almost, a paint by numbers, really of exactly how to prepare. And I love that, because we have to advise 450 locations on how to do things and they wanna paint by numbers. I always use that expression. Even a small business owner, everybody has to be comfortable, it has to be the right time for them to come back in. So if you're the small business owner and you're out there, and you're in there performing services yourself, maybe you're the one that sets that example. And after a couple of weeks of seeing clients, you can report back to that unsure aesthetician on your team and share, "Here's the client demand. Here's the safety standards we have put in place. Here's the additional training that's available to us for free from Dermalogica, or from Barbicide or whomever." There's just so much out there that even the small business owner has access to putting together a really, really nice program and making sure that everybody feels safe. Even ISPA released that wonderful tool kit, I think [30:09] ____ asked about.

30:09 TD: Yeah. Oh, isn't it great? 

30:11 LR: Yeah.

30:12 TD: Everyone's doing so much. There are so many resources out there for sure. What other bits of advice do you have for sole practitioners and independent aestheticians out there? 

30:25 LR: Well, if you're looking to dip your toe in, I love this virtual facial concept. I'm so into it. And for us, it hasn't particularly made sense yet, but I look at other concepts like Renee Rouleau, who's like, she's mostly moved to just virtual facials.

30:42 TD: Wow.

30:42 LR: And in this day and age, if you're a small business and you're not ready to open your doors yet, a great way to engage with your existing customers and even start to advertise to new ones through social media, is by offering a 20-30 minute virtual facial appointment. You can really take them through a full consultation if you use FaceTime or Zoom. If they come in with clean, makeup-free skin, you can instruct them on what to do to measure hydration levels, take a closer look at any blemishes or breakouts. Recommendations can be made, you can utilize your vendor's dropship to place orders or you can do curbside. I just feel like that is a really great place to start for a small business who's just... They're just not there yet, whether their states haven't opened or maybe they're just not ready to get going again. So I absolutely love that concept.

31:33 TD: I don't think I actually have heard of the full-on virtual facial. I've heard of the skincare consultations, that's brilliant. I'm gonna have to find one of those for myself, I'd like to have someone help me with some lymphatic drainage on my face. [chuckle]

31:47 LR: Yeah absolutely. In fact Dermalogica has a small program that, I think, it's pretty new and they call it the Mirror Me concept, and it's using the assumption that the person they're having the appointment with already has some kinds of products there, and they're actually teaching them how to... If we're talking about a phyto replenish oil, one of these amazing new oil products that's out there, they're showing them how to utilize that and perform their own facial massage, which a lot of folks just don't know how to perform their own...

32:23 TD: Yeah, I don't.

32:24 LR: It's awesome.

32:24 TD: You would think I would.


32:27 LR: So, it's fun, and it's engaging, and it could lead to integration of additional items and then also at the end, you can end it with, "And even though we can't be in person right now, let's get you started on X, Y and Z. And when we open back up, I would recommend that we do the blue LED light therapy facial. So we'll get in touch to book that when the time is right, but in the meantime, let's get you started on this."

32:53 TD: That is just great ideas, I love that. And on that same note then, talking about booking, when should people start booking? Should they start taking appointments? What does that look like? 

33:04 LR: I think it's tough. I live in New Jersey. And so right now, it's like, "Don't even think about it." [chuckle]

33:11 TD: Yeah, if you whispered it, someone's gonna give you this cringy look.

33:16 LR: Yeah, exactly. So I think it depends on where you are. Right now, where we're looking, Texas, Florida, Colorado, Arizona, those are all locations that we're starting to gear up, and hoping that by June 1st, we'll be in the right direction, getting most of them opened up. So for them, I wouldn't take appointments probably until the week out from when they know they'll be opening, just to make sure that they're ready. And again, you wanna make sure you know who you have coming back in to work, you wanna make sure that they're trained because there should be required training, you should probably give a week to make sure that that's all done from the date that you get them to agree to come back in. So I would say a week, once you know that you're gonna open.

34:00 TD: Okay, that sounds good. I like it. Okay, so another personal question. So what is, one or two, the things that you've been doing to stay healthy, while you've been at home? 

34:12 LR: Well, I am fortunate to have a Peloton.

34:16 TD: Oh, yeah. [laughter]

34:18 LR: Yeah. So I actually work remotely most of the time anyway, so I have always been able to do a late morning workout on my bike, and it's a game-changer, it just makes me so much more mentally strong. They're so motivating, the instructors on the Peloton, and then it just gets you so pumped for the rest of my day. So I work out on the Peloton probably five days a week, maybe six sometimes. And that is... Makes me mentally and physically strong, so that is super important. And I always get up an hour earlier than my daughter, just to have some time for myself 'cause she's...

34:54 TD: And how old is your daughter? 

34:55 LR: She's six, and she's in first grade. So I'm also a homeschool teacher right now. [chuckle]

35:00 TD: Oh. I am feeling you so much so. The kids that I have at home right now still are 13, that one's fine. That one's an independent learner and always has been that way, but then I have a 5-year-old, [chuckle] that is...

35:13 LR: Whole different story.

35:14 TD: A whole different story. I'm thankful that she's not in kindergarten yet, but it is hard with those young ones.

35:23 LR: Oh yeah, it is. And the coursework has been really demanding. It has not been easy street for her. [chuckle] With the school that they're in.

35:32 TD: Wow, at six? That's crazy.

35:33 LR: Yeah. Yeah. She's in first grade and she's got five subjects a day, plus a special, and it's work that is due, and must be uploaded to the Google classroom and it's graded.

35:45 TD: Woah. You would think that she's in junior high, or middle school, [chuckle] or [35:48] ____ on the demands.

35:48 LR: Exactly. Exactly.

35:51 TD: Well, then maybe this transitions to the next question I have for you. So what have you been doing during the pandemic that might be indulgent and not necessarily great for you? 


36:06 LR: You know, I've really fallen in love with tequila.


36:15 LR: If it's a nice day, let me disclaim that, if it's a really nice day and it's 6 o'clock, I will make myself a margarita or a tequila sunrise, and I will just go, and sit on the patio and just in silence, enjoy that one drink and not... [laughter]

36:32 TD: That sounds so lovely. I feel like I could do that right now as you're speaking about it. [chuckle] Sounds so... It's been really interesting to talk to everybody and find out what their indulgent thing is. Some is like a drink, or a glass of wine some people are like, "I'm eating chocolate, and I don't even like it. I don't know what's happening to me." It's fun just to see everybody's different indulgence.

36:57 LR: Absolutely.

36:57 TD: Thank you for sharing that with us. So, is there any last bits and pieces before we wrap up, that you want to share? I'm hoping that after this that you and I... You can send me some of these great resources and we'll make sure to include them in the show notes so everybody can check them out. Anything you wanna add? 

37:17 LR: I think you just... Be a good listener. I think as you look to reopen and you're calling your staff members, I think it's just really important to convey that... I don't wanna say it's a no-pressure situation type of thing, because everyone's facing pressures for different reasons, but in general, even not just during a crisis, I think people wanna be heard and acknowledged for their thoughts, and concerns and it's easy in a panic mode to get swept up in other things and hurry the process along, but really take time, and just hear out your staff, and acknowledge their concerns and then come up with customized game plans for when each person's ready to come back.

38:01 TD: I think that is a great words of wisdom. The more people can just be good listeners. Sometimes that's all that people want. It's just to be heard. They don't even necessarily need to be right, they just wanna be heard. So I think that's great. Okay, so my favorite thing to do now is to ask you what your two favorite resources are that you wanna share with all of our listeners. It could be anything, it could be related to professional, it could be personal, it could be a recipe, it could be a blog, it could be anything, a book that you're reading. What two resources do you wanna share with us? 

38:37 LR: Oh, my gosh. Okay, I've connected with this amazing author and I am hooked on every word. His name is Ryan Holiday and he writes using the philosophies of stoicism. So it's basically...

38:50 TD: Oh, my gosh, you're the third person to tell me. Is it...

38:54 LR: Really? 

38:54 TD: The Daily Stoic? 

38:56 LR: Yes, The Daily Stoic.

38:57 TD: Oh, my gosh. Everyone's obsessed with it.

39:00 LR: Yes, yes. So I've read, "Ego Is the Enemy," which is an... I think that's his latest book.

39:06 TD: Yeah, okay.

39:07 LR: It's incredible. And I'm currently reading, "The Obstacle Is the Way," which is probably the most relevant book in the world you could read right now. Basically it retrains your brain to think of crisis, or turmoils, or troubles as to identifying where's the opportunity within this lie? Rather than just focusing on, "Wow this is a problem. Wow this is a problem." Be able to pivot and look at it from a strategic standpoint. "Alright, what can I do with this? How can I get around this?" Or, "How can I just do something differently to get through this problem, and then look back on it and say, 'Wow, I would have never actually accomplished X, had that problem not come up.'" For example, my daughter learned to ride a two-wheel bike during this crisis. And if we weren't all stuck at home, that probably wouldn't have happened 'cause we wouldn't have had the time to go outside and practice every day. So that's something that we took like, "Wow, what are we gonna do today?" And she was angry about being home, and we turned it into... We took it and she actually grew in a different way.

40:10 TD: Oh, that is so cute. Oh my gosh, and just... She's probably so... So proud of herself, and she'll maybe look back at this time period in our lives right now as not so horrible, and as a real bright spot, 'cause she learned how to ride a two-wheeler.

40:27 LR: Totally. And then also the books and the whole practice of stoicism is... And I get caught up in this, too, so it's been great for me to just learn more about this, and it's really getting control of your emotions, so that... When something happens in a professional environment, where your gut instinct is to react, get angry, or feel like it's unfair or you didn't get the credit for it, or something like that, it's like the power of holding back, and keeping yourself composed and always re-shifting your brain to focus on what's the more important thing? Does acting out...

41:05 TD: Oh, Lisa, that is so good. No, keep saying.


41:10 TD: Keep talking girl, I like it.

41:13 LR: So, I would say honestly, if I could use that for both of the resources because I've been reading multiple of his books and just follow him on Instagram. He does post something every day, the author, Ryan Holiday and he's just taught me a lot. And so that's one thing. I've tried to look at this down period as even though I'm crazy busy with work and homeschooling my daughter, I wanna grow from this somehow. What can I get out of this? And so, I felt like investing in myself to take an hour a day to read, and read about things that will help me grow as a person was probably the best use of my time. So, that's what I've been trying to do.

41:54 TD: Lisa, I swear, sometimes life is so, what's the word? The things that you need come to you when you need it. And I can't even tell you how much what you're saying right now is resonating with me and it's exactly what I needed to hear today. So, I feel so lucky that I got this little private session with you. [laughter]

42:15 LR: Awesome. Thank you. Happy to help.

42:18 TD: Okay. [laughter] Okay. So, we'll wrap this up. I just wanted you to share though, if people wanna reach out to you, they're interested in Hand & Stone and maybe they wanna go work there, and they wanna look at employment opportunities, or they just want to check you out. Where could people reach you, or websites, Instagram handles, any of that good stuff? 

42:43 LR: Yeah. I'm on LinkedIn with Lisa Rossmann. I'm on Facebook, Lisa Rossmann. And of course you can always email me. My work email is lrossmann@handandstone.com. So, please, anyone can feel free to reach out at any time. I'm happy to chat. I'm a fellow ESTY myself. So, I can geek out about skincare, or we can talk business, whatever your fancy, so.

43:07 TD: Perfect. And then if people are interested in employment with Hand & Stone, where would they go for that? 

43:13 LR: Absolutely. So, if you go to the handandstone.com page, there's a section for careers. And then, we have a whole separate career landing page. And our director of recruiting, her name is Rita Belov, B-E-L-O-V and she handles and then funnels out anybody's interest depending on where they live, and then we send you off to that closest owner to you so you can work close to home.

43:38 TD: I love it. I knew you would have all the answers.


43:42 TD: Well, thank you so much and we look forward to talking to you again really soon.

43:47 LR: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This was fun.


43:50 TD: Thanks for joining us today. If you like what you hear, and you want more, subscribe. If you wanna belong to the only all-inclusive Association for Aestheticians, that includes professional liability insurance, education, industry insights, and an opportunity to spotlight your six skills, join at ascpskincare.com, only $259 per year for all this goodness. ASCP knows it's all about you.

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